Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

[Michael M.]

A little over 5 years ago I bought some Tobacco Brown vinyl seat covers for my '68 from Al Knoch through a local Corvette parts outfit. I purchased them because I was going to paint my car and wanted the seat covers so I could choose the right color exterior paint as I was not going back to the stock color (Corvette Bronze) as I wanted the colors to complement each other. My plan was to paint the car, then address/restore the interior.

Of course, things never go as planned as the paint and body work took way longer than planned and then other projects/issues got in the way. In the meantime, the seat covers were stored in my house (in a climate controlled environment) in the original plastic bag that I received, although it had opened it obviously. A couple of weeks ago I was looking at the seat covers and noticed that the black foam that was sewn into the seat covers was crumbling. I was surprised to say the least.

I called the local parts outfit, brought them the seat covers, and they called Al Knoch about it, but Al Knoch wouldn't warranty the items as it had been too long since they were purchased. I completely understand their position and was not really expecting them to do anything because of the intervening 5 years, so this is not a knock on Al Knoch (no pun intended). From what I've read Al Knoch is usually quite generous in warranting items that have passed their 30 day return policy, but 5 years is a long time.

My questions are 1) whether this sort of foam deterioration is normal; and 2) should I still install these seat covers on my car even though the foam is deteriorating. Of course, I can't see the condition of the foam that is inside the vinyl but only the foam that has been sort of squeezed out at the seams where the stitching is.

I really do not want to put already compromised seat covers on a restored interior (after all the whole idea is to make it look like new) but buying another set isn't cheap and I'm not sure that the next set won't suffer from the same issue.

Does anyone have any insight or kernels or wisdom that you can share with me? Thanks in advance for any replies.

- Mike

[Curt S.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Hi Michael. I worked in the home furnishing industry for just under 40 years . Polyurethane foam was used in many areas of our upholstered living room sofas and chairs . Polyurethane was/is a big improvement over foam rubber of the 40s and 50s. Poly is made in many densities usually from 1.8 to 3.0 or more. As the number increases, the durability increases but the poly does not sit as soft as the 1.8 product and the higher density foam is more expensive. Poly is made in large buns and looks like a loaf of bread when it comes out of it's oven after being cooked. So it is my guess that AL Knoch has purchased somewhere around 1.8 foam so his covers will have a softer seat. !.8 foam does not and will not have the resiliency because the particles are farther apart and unable to bounce back as many times. So, the age old problem of comfort/cost/ durability. My guess is that your foam is 1.8 and has deteriorated because it was exposed to the air more than it would have if upholstered. Sounds weird but it is the truth. Hope this helps. Thanks Curt

[Michael M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Thanks Curt, it does make sense about the air exposure compromising the foam. So would you venture a guess that the foam that is actually inside the covers is still OK? Should I just bite the bullet and buy new seat covers when I am actually ready to install them?

- Mike

[Gary R.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Hi Mike
Good to see you still working on the 68. I have a new in box set of 69 black seat covers I bought 30 years ago, always planning on installing them. I suspect I will be in the same boat as you once I do get to the seats. They are still in the original box and bag but have been in my attic all this time exposed to heat and cold extremes!
Hope all is well.
Gary

[Joe M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Exact thing happend to my saddle tan leather seats from AK. Foam crumbled to dust...before installation. Not the entire seat foam but a large portion of it. Took it to Carlisle to show AK. He recognized the person who sewed it up by the initials. Said he would sell me new saddle leather covers at cost. Refused but left seats and covers for AK to install. Recieved them in mail, figuring he would never insall the covers with deteriorated foam..but he did. At some PointI'll take the seats to a local uphosterly shop and get them to attach new foam to the leather seat cushions.

[Michael M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Thanks Joe. Just a little disappointing. I guess it's the air exposure ruining the foam but I can only wonder if the same thing would have happened if they had been installed immediately. Of course, once they're installed it's unlikely you'll become aware of the crumbling foam even though it may be happening.

[Joe M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

I'll post a pic tomorrow. the foam just disintigrated in defined areas of both seat cushions, both backs are fine as are much of the seat foam.You'd expect any contamination to be more widespread. My original leathers foam is just fine and those covers have been thru decades of abuse.I had mine stored in the bedroom closet.

[Reba W.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

You would be aware of it had they been installed. If you take a look at seat covers installed by GM 35-40 years ago, you will find the same thing. We have seen many judged cars with this problem. Over time, exposure to heat, air, and body fluids make all foam deteriorate.

[Joe M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Your note is not clear, "if they had been....". Current AK covers, AK installed were deteriorated before he installed them. had deteriorated areas only on the seat while in storage in bedroom closet in original packaging.No stains, moisture, etc. AK looked them over and couldn't speculate what caused it.Original covers I took off my 63 coupoe and foam is perfect, but leather cracked and scuffed.My only concern now is to get the foam replaced locally. It is what it is.

[Curt S.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

More upholstery stuff. All the car companies for decades used " topically" dyed leathers at that time made in the USA most at Lackawana Leather in Nebraska I think. Topically was/is another term for Paint with flex agents added. So leather covers that are cracked should be inspected because it is most likely cracked/stressed PAINT. Believe it or not covers can be sanded and topically dyed/painted. Most new car dealers have people that repair cracked leather seats in their used car inventory. Some of the higher priced cars now have full aniline dyed leathers which means dyed all the way through the leather. These are much more expensive than topically / painted leathers. All leathers are now finished off shore because the EPA did not like most of the chemicals used. Original leather covers could very possibly be restored, Hope this helps. Curt

[Ed S.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

What might be causing the foam to deteriorate in the cases mentioned is that when the upholstery pieces are stored in their protective plastic bags they are denied fresh clean air. Vinyl material off-gasses and the gas is captured by the plastic bags - and unfortunately, it appears that the released gasses are caustic and is attacking the foam. Of course, if they are stored in a hot environment it is even worse. To this day, (but it was much worse not too many years ago) if you keep a new car shut up (windows closed) for extended periods of time a film will deposit itself on the inside of the windows - that film looks like nicotine stains - it is actually chemicals in the gas from vinyl and plastic pieces.

[Michael M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Sorry for the confusion Joe, my reference to "had they been installed" was a reference to my seat covers, not yours. I was thinking out loud and wondering if they would have crumbled if they had been installed immediately, since they were fine when I initially received them. No doubt the foam will deteriorate eventually, but 5 years seems early to me. Either way, it's well beyond the AK warranty, so nothing I can really do. Like you said, it is what it is.

- Mike

[Sean S.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

A little over 5 years ago I bought some Tobacco Brown vinyl seat covers for my '68 from Al Knoch through a local Corvette parts outfit. I purchased them because I was going to paint my car and wanted the seat covers so I could choose the right color exterior paint as I was not going back to the stock color (Corvette Bronze) as I wanted the colors to complement each other. My plan was to paint the car, then address/restore the interior.

Of course, things never go as planned as the paint and body work took way longer than planned and then other projects/issues got in the way. In the meantime, the seat covers were stored in my house (in a climate controlled environment) in the original plastic bag that I received, although it had opened it obviously. A couple of weeks ago I was looking at the seat covers and noticed that the black foam that was sewn into the seat covers was crumbling. I was surprised to say the least.

I called the local parts outfit, brought them the seat covers, and they called Al Knoch about it, but Al Knoch wouldn't warranty the items as it had been too long since they were purchased. I completely understand their position and was not really expecting them to do anything because of the intervening 5 years, so this is not a knock on Al Knoch (no pun intended). From what I've read Al Knoch is usually quite generous in warranting items that have passed their 30 day return policy, but 5 years is a long time.

My questions are 1) whether this sort of foam deterioration is normal; and 2) should I still install these seat covers on my car even though the foam is deteriorating. Of course, I can't see the condition of the foam that is inside the vinyl but only the foam that has been sort of squeezed out at the seams where the stitching is.

I really do not want to put already compromised seat covers on a restored interior (after all the whole idea is to make it look like new) but buying another set isn't cheap and I'm not sure that the next set won't suffer from the same issue.

Does anyone have any insight or kernels or wisdom that you can share with me? Thanks in advance for any replies.

- Mike

Mike----
Slightly off topic, but what color did you paint the body?
I have the same combo, bronze with tobacco.
I think the only other factory recommended body color pairing with tobacco was white. Unfortunate. Tobacco is a sharp interior color. Recently on eBay, there was a dealer with a L89, factory rally red with tobacco. Looked great.
Curious what you paired it with.
Sean

[Michael M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

Sean, funny you would ask that question because the whole reason I bought the seat covers ahead of time was so I could pick a good exterior color. When I bought the car many years ago it was painted Cordovan Maroon. It was OK but I wasn't thrilled with it. The factory color was Corvette Bronze, but I saw original 68's with that color and did not like it at all. I went with a current GM color called Inferno Orange Metallic. It goes well with interior and I love it.

No plans to ever sell the car so originality was not a must and my 3 teenagers are already arguing over who's getting the car when the time comes. :-)

[Leonard M.]

Re: Question about foam deterioration on vinyl seat covers

I replaced the foam in the pleats of my original 1970 seat bottoms. I would guess that the Al Knoch covers are made similar to the originals where the foam is glued to a thin cloth and sewn in pleats to the seat material (vinyl or leather); a sandwich of cloth, foam and vinyl. The foam dries out turns into something like a cracker and becomes dust and brittle pieces inside the pleats.
I found a method of "restoration" that worked for me. I actually found this process online, but did not save the source. Here is description of removing the dust/pieces and replacing the foam that I wrote for a member.
I purchase the foam from ebay; it is 1/4" scrim (cloth netting) backed foam. Mine was green and I see pink color on there now. The color Cannot be seen after reinstalling the covers.
The original vinyl comfortweave appears to have been made with foam glued to the back of the vinyl and a thin cloth glued to the foam. The patterns were cut out and the covers were sewed to create the pleats. The foam deteriorates, hardens and is floating in the pleats/channels. I cut the cloth diagonal to the channels and used a long thin crevice vacuum attachment to vac out the channels/pleats. I also used a long narrow spatula to scrape out any pieces still sticking. I don't remember the width, but I cut the new foam the length and width of the channel and with my spatula and a yard stick slid in and evened out the new foam. I sealed the slit with contact cement (weatherstrip cement) and think I used some at the top and bottom brushed right on the cloth to keep the new foam from creeping around. If you cut it right it should fit inside the channel tightly without moving and not oversized to wrinkle or fold over. I also had a vinyl split ready to open up and I cut a piece of vinyl patch and contact cemented it to the back side to repair it. I doubled up on the new foam on the drivers bottom left side to "poof" it up a bit more; feel free to experiment.
Something I realized that may kill the repair is if the cloth pleat/channels were badly torn or worn out; also the thin sewn tubes the long wires slide in; they keep the channels straight. Like those "stays" in the collars of dress shirts. I would think yours' are good as they probably wear out when the vinyl does. The good thing is that removing is not destructive and you can put everything back together relatively easy. Bottom line; it's worth the effort and the cost is very little. Good luck , Lenny