Tinted windshield judging

**Ed S.** · June 18, 2016, 09:24 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Don,
I don't have an answer to your question re the pattern of the tinting band but I have a related question that I suspect you will have to deal with (and so am I with my '64). Assuming the tint pattern is correct or you can find a windshield with the correct tint pattern don't you also have to have the correct etched markings (LOF etc) in the corner of the glass including a correct date? Are repros available with correct markings? I would assume no. That said, unless you find an original for your car - you will still lose points, do I understand this issue correctly?

**Donald H.** · June 19, 2016, 05:55 AM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Originally posted by Ed Szeliga (60294)

Don,
I don't have an answer to your question re the pattern of the tinting band but I have a related question that I suspect you will have to deal with (and so am I with my '64). Assuming the tint pattern is correct or you can find a windshield with the correct tint pattern don't you also have to have the correct etched markings (LOF etc) in the corner of the glass including a correct date? Are repros available with correct markings? I would assume no. That said, unless you find an original for your car - you will still lose points, do I understand this issue correctly?

.

Auto City Classic does the Logo and Date etching on the glass for an extra cost.

**Keith B.** · June 19, 2016, 09:13 AM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

I have not seen a reproduction tint band that could pass judging. There are other characteristics of the color /fading of original glass that sets it apart. Original good glass is hard to find and it most likely will be in need of professional restoration. You will be looking at $2000-4000 if you are lucky. The point deduction makes it worth on a high dollar car.

**Edward J.** · June 19, 2016, 10:10 AM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Originally posted by Donald Harris (51003)

I'm in need of new glass for my 66 restoration. The TIM&JG describes the tinting band as being narrower in the middle and tapering to a wider arc at the outer edges. Also, a smooth vignette transition from tinted to clear, not a sharp contrast.

I recently saw a new Auto City Classic tinted windshield which appeared to have the narrower middle, etc. But I don't know enough to judge the tint to clear transition.

From research here in the TDB, I assume these windshields still take a deduct. According to the Judging Reference Manual it looks like the Standard Deduction would be 10 points (50% of 20 originality points). It reads "Deduct 50%--OEM brand, with incorrect configured tinting".

Hopefully I can hear back from someone who has been through Regional or National judging in 2015 or 2016 that can reply with what their actual deduct was.

Thanks,

Don, you are correct on the deduct on tinted windshields, tint band is a hit on the tinted reproductions, dating will have to be correct. other wise its more. I just put in a dated LOF clear windshield from Pilkington classic's division. hopefully it will get all the points at judging.

**Ed S.** · June 19, 2016, 10:20 AM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Ok, I have to ask. If there is no "as built" record - such as a window sticker, tank sheet or some other original document for a particular C2, what would prevent an owner from installing a new non-tinted window acquired from Auto Cit classic which has the correct markings and date data? Obviously this would be a much cheaper course of action and, I assume, that the non-tint versions of their windshield glass will pass judging. Of course it would have to be a car with the tinted windshield only option and not all tinted glass - unless you are replacing all the glass. Just asking.

**Mark D.** · June 19, 2016, 11:08 AM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Sometimes, judges will deduct for the font used on repop glass.

**David H.** · June 19, 2016, 12:11 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Donald,

DOT mandates all replacement glass identify the manufacturer. On the attached image note the glass manufacturer - DOT 516 - is actually Kragok Petch Monkol Co. LTD of Samutsakorn, Thailand. In this case, another vendor has etched a LOF logo with date code. Compare this etching to an original and I would speculate a regional or national judge would take notice. If the "DOT516" is not hidden by windshield trim, the judge would know it is not an original glass. (LOF was assigned it's manufacturer identification "DOT15" 30 October 1968 and it was months later before their logo was updated to include the new information.) Any DOTXX identification on your 1966 would indicate a replacement glass.

My concern would be the fit, finish and quality of your replacement glass - regardless of the LOF etching. Your installation shop may be a source of information on what manufacturers to avoid - some refuse to install glass from certain manufacturers because of fit and finish.

In any case, you can easily determine the original manufacturer by looking up their DOT code using the link below:

DOT number search: DOT Number Database

http://www.carwindshields.info/dot_db

Car Windshields: DOT number database search. Find out what Department of Transportation Numbers on Windshields mean.

Attached Files

TB JPG DOT Etch.001.jpg (50.3 KB, 720 views)

**Ed S.** · June 19, 2016, 12:54 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

David,
Thanks for posting the DOT reference info and explanation. I have a follow up question - and - if this constitutes a high jacking of this thread a) I apologize to Donald and others and, b) kindly inform me and I will start a separate one (albeit similar).

I have a '64 convert that has a lot of original parts. I have confirmed that all the side glass is original. I am making progress on determining the originality of the windshield, David your post has helped. My tinted windshield is labeled "Shaded E-Z-EYE" Safety Float - it has the LOF logo and DOT15, the date is CG. Based on info above, I assumed my windshield was a replacement until I found an article by a person named Patrick Smith. Too much to repeat or quote but..... according to Patrick, E-Z-EYE is a GM OEM item that was installed at the factory. The date of my windshield (CG) = Nov 1963, my car was built in early April '64. Comments / opinions by persons more experienced in this subject than I would be appreciated. Essentially, could my windshield be original. See the article at: http://phscollectorcarworld.blogspot...dow-glass.html

Thank you

**Donald H.** · June 19, 2016, 12:56 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

David, you just answered some more of my questions. Pictures below are the LOGO/Date of the windshield I removed. It is what I beleive to be an OEM replacements with UG dating, so I assume it was July 77, or July 90 per the LOF dating scheme. I was considering reinstalling it since the standard deduct is 20% for incorrect dating versus 50% for the tinting. But with the DOT 15 also in the LOGO/Date I'm now wondering if ONLY standard deduct is applied, i.e. 20%. Or can a judge also apply CDCIF and hit me for CONFIGURATION due to the DOT 15?

OR, would I get a 30% deduct for a OEM brand, later service replacement style with correct tinting?

Also, the LOGO/Date on this later replacement reads from the outside versus inside as is stated in the TIM&JG. So possible more deduct under CDCIF!!

I would appreciate someone who knows what they are looking at comment on the tinting across the windshield and the transition. I don't really know what to look for as to correctness and whether this later replacement glass was still configured as the original 66 tinting.

Thanks

Attached Files

**Ed S.** · June 19, 2016, 01:08 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Don,
The etching on the windshield of my April build '64 is the same as yours except for the date. See the link in my previous post - according to it your UG date could be July, '63, '76 or '89. Hope I am not confusing things for you.

**Donald H.** · June 19, 2016, 01:36 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Originally posted by Ed Szeliga (60294)

Don,
The etching on the windshield of my April build '64 is the same as yours except for the date. See the link in my previous post - according to it your UG date could be July, '63, '76 or '89. Hope I am not confusing things for you.

I think your reading the year one column off. UG is July 64, 77, or 90. And I believe your glass CG is November 64, 77, or 90. See below. If you look at the link you posted, the LOF year Code headings need to slide to the Right slightly to line up with the columns. E.g. J is 65, 78, 91, G is 64, 77, 90, and C is 63, 76, 89. I think for yours to be Nov 1963 it would need to be CC.

First Alpha Code
(Month of Manufacture)

Second Alpha Code
(Year of Manufacture)

**Ed S.** · June 19, 2016, 01:44 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Don,

Good eye, you are correct. In the the chart I was reading the one letter code characters do not line up evenly with the years - upon closer examination, G = '64 '77 or '90. That answers my question - I have a GM service replacement windshield. I think I will keep it and take the deduction as opposed to spending $$$$$$$ for something that I know is not genuine even if it appears to be.

**David H.** · June 19, 2016, 02:09 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

Donald & Don,

DOT glass manufacturer codes were assigned in 1968. In the case of LOF - "DOT15" - was assigned on 30 Oct 1968. There were NO manufacturer codes in the logo prior to that - (LOF logo began to be included the DOT identifier months later). Hence if you see a DOT code on cars built prior to Oct 68, that identifies the glass as replacement - i.e. glass manufactured AFTER Oct 68.

Glass supplied to Corvette by LOF used the General Motors trademarks "SOFT-RAY" and "SAFETY FLO-LITE". "E-Z-EYE" AND "FLOAT" are LOF trademarks and were never used on OEM Corvette Glass. "E-Z-EYE" AND "FLOAT" were used on LOF replacement glass for Corvette and were used as OEM on passenger cars.

"Corvette by the Numbers - 1955 to 1982", by Alan Colvin has an interesting section on Corvette glass.

Glass is judged using the Standard Deduction guidelines.

Be aware of the manufacturer of your replacement glass. Some history: DOT 15 Libbey-Owens-Ford started in 1818 as Libbey-Owens. In 1892 they merged with Edward Ford Plate and formed LOF. In 1986, LOF was sold to Pilkington UK(1826). In 2006, Pilkington was sold to Nippon Sheet Glass NSG Japan (1918). NSG subsequently has consolidated their world-wide auto glass operations as "Pilkington".

Sorry for the "history of the world" response. If I needed glass I would be looking at a Pilkington source. Check with your local independent auto glass installers for their take on manufacturers to use or avoid.

**Donald H.** · June 19, 2016, 02:33 PM

Re: Tinted windshield judging

David, great info. I really appreciate your response and the history.

I know that Auto City Classic get their glass from Thailand as I just saw a 67 installed windshield that still had the manufactureres sticker on it, and it was a Thai company.

I though I read somewhere that Pilkington glass is produced in Mexico. I have not called them, but when I look on the Pilkington Classic website it says they are out of stock for windshields. I'll give them a call next week.

I would however like to know why you suggest Pilkington. Have you used them, or have good first hand knowledge?

Thanks again,