Joe, you commented on my post the other day regarding starter bolts and in reading old post you seem very knowledgeable. Your say in one that 63-65 aluminum nose starters use a flanged head set of bolts. I know that some believe there should be lock washer on starter bolts but doesn't that defeat the purpose of flanged heads? Also, Rich Pasqualone, whose ebay listings provide a lot of knowledge about bolts, shows sets with the short bolt standard hex with a lock and the long with a flange and no lock. Can you comment on this? I've bought a set of indented hex flanged head "O" stamp, gr 8 on long and gr 5 on short and don't know if locks are to be used.
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Larry------
First of all, flanged head starter bolts are not used with lockwashers. In fact, I cannot think of any application in which a flanged head bolt is used with a lockwasher.
For 1963 the starter bolts that were supposed to have been used were GM #3830134, inboard (long) and GM #3830135, outboard (short). I'm not really sure that the 3830134 was a flanged head bolt. I've not been able to confirm it one way or the other. I do not think the 3830135 was a flanged head bolt. It was used in conjunction with a special washer of GM #3765135.
For 1964-68 small block, the 3830134 was supposed to have continued to be used. However, if it was actually used, then the 3830134 was a flanged head bolt because all that I have seen were flanged head. But, it's very possible that, irrespective of what the AIM indicates, some other bolt was actually used. The GM #3849418 was used for the outboard bolt for 1964-65 and GM #3880880 was used for the outboard bolt for 1966-68. Both of these bolts are definitely flanged head. In any event, regardless of what bolts were used, no washers were used for any starter bolt for 1964-68.
1965 big block as well as 67-69 L-88 used the same starter bolts as small blocks.
For all other 1966-69 big blocks as well as 1969 small blocks, starter bolt GM #3733289 was used for both starter bolts. This is definitely a standard hex head bolt and it was definitely used with no washer of any kind.
By the way, I should have mentioned that the GM #3830134 was discontinued from SERVICE in December, 1971 and replaced by the GM #1366043 which was later replaced by GM #14057099 and GM #14097278. All of these bolts are definitely flanged head bolts. I wonder if the 1366043 was not the bolt actually used for 63-68 small blocks since I believe it had been released much earlier than when it replaced the 3830134.
One more thing: so how come flanged head bolts were generally used for 63-68 small blocks and the aforementioned big blocks and standard hex head used for most big blocks and 1969 small blocks? Well, the 63-68 small blocks, 1965 L-78 and 67-69 L-88 used a starter with an aluminum nose. So, I expect that GM wanted to spread the clamping load over a larger bearing surface to avoid galling the soft aluminum. The other 66-69 big blocks and 1969 small blocks used a cast iron starter nose so no such precaution was likely deemed necessary.Last edited by Joe L.; May 29, 2016, 04:10 PM.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Joe,
Why is GM #3765135 called a "special" washer? I can only guess it has something to do with some dimension that is not standard for flat washers.
GaryComment
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Ok Joe...you are very clear...no washers. The only thing I'd like to get clarified....the negative battery cable and one other small ground are under the outer bolt. Still no washer...right?
I'm good with this. The electrical page of the AIM for the battery shows a bolt and washer for reference but I suspect this is a carryover from 63. The "starter" page of the AIM where the bolts are called out shows no washer and the depiction is of flange head bolts on both sides...numbers as you discuss above. That means putting all of the rotational force of the washer head on the ground cables but I can do this.Comment
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Just a comment on lock washers versus flanged heads: Lock washer really don't serve the purpose for which they are originally intended. They do not really lock anything. If a bolt loses enough clamp load that spring of a typical lock washer might serve a purpose, its already too loose to deliverer its intended load. As such, about the only thing a lock washer does is to provide an consistent hardened bearing surface for the bolt head to turn against.
On the other hand, a flanged head is intended to distribute the bearing surface load over a wider area and/or bridge any slots or wide clearance holes. Again, no locking feature.
In fact, a lock washer is probably a better choice than a flanged head for bearing on a cable end; i.e. it doesn't tend to turn the cable as torque is applied to thread of the bolt. A flanged head does tend to turn the cable. as for electrical contact, the cable end is already touching the starter, so whether you choose the washer or flanged head doesn't matter much..Mike
1965 Black Ext / Silver Int. Coupe, L84 Duntov, French Lick, 2023 - Triple Diamond
1965 Red Ext / White & Red Int. Conv. - 327/250 AC Regional Top Flight.Comment
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Gary------
I don't think it's any sort of a split lockwasher, flat washer or any sort of a star washer. I think it's, perhaps, a "serrated" type of washer. I have some NOS examples of these. I'll try to dig them out when I get a chance. They had more applications than the 63 starter bolt application.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
CORRECTION - I mis-spoke about Rich P's listings. Attached are pics of what he has. It is either flat or cupped, but small diameter and thick. He'd have to tell you for sure. Listed as 63-E64. I'd bet this is correct.Comment
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Gary, here are some washersComment
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Re: Starter Bolts - Joe Lucia
Yep, it's a hardened extra thick flat washer.Comment
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