'88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

[John G.]

I have a California 5/88 35th Anniversary which I have owned for about 15 years and it had about 24,000 miles when I bought it. The 1987-1989 TIM&JG states that the muffler pairs for this '88 (actually all 87-89) s/b 10097679/10097680 or 14093135/14093136. Mine are 14105111/14105112 which looking on-line are sold as correct for 86-89. So is it likely that somewhere early in the life of the car replaced them? Or did CA cars get different mufflers? Or?

[John G.]

Re: '88 Muflers - 1410555 and 14105112

I typoed the P/N - it s/b 14105111. Please see attached pics:

[Joe L.]

Re: '88 Muflers - 1410555 and 14105112

I typoed the P/N - it s/b 14105111. Please see attached pics:

John-------


There was no difference for mufflers between California and non-California 1988's. However, from what I can tell, there was a difference between those with 2.59:1 gear ratio versus 3.07:1 ratio and, possibly, early and late 1988's.

1988 coupes with 2.59:1 ratio as well as all convertibles used the GM #14093135, 14093136. Those with 3.07:1 used the GM #14105111, 14105112.

You can identify your axle ratio by looking at your service parts identification label. 2.59:1=GM1, 3.07:1=G44.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Muflers - 1410555 and 14105112

There is a G44 on Service Parts tag in the glove box. Additionally on the window sticker it list "G92 PERFORMANCE AXLE RATIO 22.00". So - mystery solved?

As a more general question how does this type of information get back to team leaders/editors/etc.? Are there errata sheets for various TIM&JGs?

[Joe L.]

Re: '88 Muflers - 1410555 and 14105112

There is a G44 on Service Parts tag in the glove box. Additionally on the window sticker it list "G92 PERFORMANCE AXLE RATIO 22.00". So - mystery solved?

As a more general question how does this type of information get back to team leaders/editors/etc.? Are there errata sheets for various TIM&JGs?

John------


Yup, you have the correct mufflers for your application.

I don't know what the process is for JG correction. I assume the team leader would be the place to go. I believe these are identified in the Restorer Magazine.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Muflers - 1410555 and 14105112

Thanks for the help.

Contacts are inside the front cover. Allen Tremain from CA is the "guy". It will help since being from CA he has likely seen a number of these. Here in FL I'm unlikely to find another car that's both 35th and CA (and my axle package besides).

[David H.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

I have a California 5/88 35th Anniversary which I have owned for about 15 years and it had about 24,000 miles when I bought it. The 1987-1989 TIM&JG states that the muffler pairs for this '88 (actually all 87-89) s/b 10097679/10097680 or 14093135/14093136. Mine are 14105111/14105112 which looking on-line are sold as correct for 86-89. So is it likely that somewhere early in the life of the car replaced them? Or did CA cars get different mufflers? Or?

Are the muffler dates good for the build date of your car? Did you get a deduction at the Chapter meet - is that why you are asking the question?

Presuming the dates are good, at a regional the judge would just make a note of the pn discrepancy for the TL. Discrepancies with the JG crop up all the time. Never change an original car to make it consistent with a JG - that is how we learn.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

That's an interesting date - it really ties these mufflers to a limited number of cars of the 1988 production. The door tag has 05/88 as the manufacturing dates so these should be correct.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

There are a lot of factors here. As a now retired "computer guy" I have a personal tendency to work by the book - which is why every server and complex workstation that I setup or modified for the last +20 years had a complete build sheet for it. And yes - I sometimes tend to get wrapped up in the details.

This is only my second 'Vet - my other one being a '61 that had many incorrect parts on it when I bought it in 2013 and which I have spent over a year getting correct parts for after the 2015 Lakeland regional meet - everything from a horn relay to the horns. Your comment about the "old" books vs. the "new" is correct. A real upgrade.

I'm sure the new 87-89 book will consider more of the nuances such as California emission tags and mufflers for performance axle cars built after a certain date which will make life easier for the judges. As for my '88 I'm going to finish the items that the judges pointed out to me and then just enjoy driving and showing it at car shows here in sunny Florida for the rest of the year (after I figure out the dash grill color).

[Patrick H.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

There are a lot of factors here. As a now retired "computer guy" I have a personal tendency to work by the book

As you learned, the C4 manuals seem to be filled with errors, especially with regard to numbers. Sometimes I wonder how a number ended up there, when it's nothing like what is on the cars.

The beauty of the C4 is that a lot of the parts will last a long time, and odds are that if it looks like it has been there since Day 1, it probably has.

You might want to send in a list of "errata" to the Team Leader once you get finished having your car judged.

Patrick

[John G.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

I'm going to send my final comments on what I found to Allen T. As far as judging I got a Top Flight so for now my efforts mostly go back to the '61. I did find several comments that the reason my Bose grills are blue is sun fading - but you couldn't tell it from looking at them. Kind of a minor bummer since I pulled the dash pad out to replace the light switch since it didn't nicely dim the dash lights but I'll pull it back out.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

I think the judges were correct to take points off for the mufflers and my emission stickers. I judging class the night before there was discussion about consistency and using CDCIF. My thought is that a car's score should be roughly the same regardless of chapter or regional judging or any judging that's on the ground.

My point is that if it's not in the book it's not in the book. And everyone needs to use the same book so they get the approximately the same result.

I don't know how the errata process works. For instance I find a minor error in the new 61-62 guide but I've printed off the email from the team leader and will use that the next time my car gets judged.

[David H.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

I think the judges were correct to take points off for the mufflers ....

What was the deduction for on the mufflers? If the deduction was only for pn that didn't match the JG, then at a regional or national you wouldn't get an originality deduction as they appear correct from your photographs. (per the dates on the mufflers). As Dave Perry indicated earlier, a judge should look at a part on the basis of the part's originality, if the part is original to the car, the problem is with the JG, not with the car.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

Since I ended up at TF I'm not worried about the points deduction right now - I'm trying to get to a resolution before the next time it gets judged.

When I'm done gathering all the information I'll send it to the team leader. I don't know how the errata process works for the manuals.

I think the judges did a really good job at the meet. In the end I want to know what to fix so that I can start that process in parallel with my '61 process.

[John G.]

Re: '88 Mufflers - 14105111 and 14105112

Getting ready to do my comments. Where can I find documentation for the April 8, 1988 date?