How do birdcages rust

[Joe L.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

All------


A common symptom of birdcage corrosion in C2 and C3 convertibles is the dreaded "loose top" syndrome. This syndrome evidences itself by the top being loose when it is properly latched at the deck lid and the windshield header. Owners usually attempt in vain to find out what's wrong with their convertible top. There's nothing wrong with the top. It's the windshield frame (part of the birdcage) that's the problem. It's been weakened by severe corrosion and is bent back. Attempts to "tighten the top" will only result in the windshield being bent further back.

This sort of damage can be repaired and there are repair sections available. However, the repair is difficult and costly. If the birdcage corrosion is more extensive than just the windshield pillars (as it often is), forget it----the car has a "terminal illness".

[Walter F.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

UNBELIEVABLE NowI understand why they say BEFORE you buy a Corvette take someone along who knows Corvettes, even if you have to pay them.

[Joe L.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Even restored cars must be scrutinized......



Sadly, the owner of this car found out it had serious birdcage issues AFTER purchase....



Story HERE

Rich------


The only one that came out OK on this car is the seller. The current owner now gets hit with a "double whammy". What I mean by that is he has to repair the corrosion damage (assuming it's not so extensive as to be impractical) and, then, redo a lot of the previous restoration work including paint and body work.

What the previous owner did here is quite obvious. Once they got into the restoration they undoubtedly found the corrosion problem----no way could this be missed in a frame-off restoration or, even, a good frame-on restoration. He realized that to repair this damage was going to be very expensive and, if he did it, there was no way he was going to be able to get out of the car nearly what he had in it. So, he decided let's complete the "restoration" and make the car look very pretty and then sell it to someone else----someone who sees a pretty car, falls in love with it, and does not look further. With a high dollar, older Corvette beauty MUST BE MORE THAN SKIN DEEP.

So, the previous owner transferred his problem to someone else. Very common. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

[Joe L.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

UNBELIEVABLE NowI understand why they say BEFORE you buy a Corvette take someone along who knows Corvettes, even if you have to pay them.

Walter------


Even someone that knows Corvettes well might not be able to detect birdcage corrosion---it's not readily apparent without removing various pieces. That's more involved than most pre-purchase inspections get.

Follow the advice I provided in the post several above and one stands a good chance of not getting burned. However, keep in mind that it is possible for a car to have a good frame and still have serious birdcage corrosion damage. Not likely, but possible. Also, there's always a chance that a car has had a corrosion-damaged frame replaced. Then, the frame can look great but the birdcage could be full of corrosion.

[Walter F.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

What sad, sad story. And probably no legal action can ever be taken because the person could always say they were not aware of such damage. These are just people with no conscience.

[Richard M.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Rich------


The only one that came out OK on this car is the seller. The current owner now gets hit with a "double whammy". What I mean by that is he has to repair the corrosion damage (assuming it's not so extensive as to be impractical) and, then, redo a lot of the previous restoration work including paint and body work.

What the previous owner did here is quite obvious. Once they got into the restoration they undoubtedly found the corrosion problem----no way could this be missed in a frame-off restoration or, even, a good frame-on restoration. He realized that to repair this damage was going to be very expensive and, if he did it, there was no way he was going to be able to get out of the car nearly what he had in it. So, he decided let's complete the "restoration" and make the car look very pretty and then sell it to someone else----someone who sees a pretty car, falls in love with it, and does not look further. With a high dollar, older Corvette beauty MUST BE MORE THAN SKIN DEEP.

So, the previous owner transferred his problem to someone else. Very common. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Joe, I think you summarized exactly how it likely happened. They knew exactly what they were doing and merely covered it all up with a pretty skin.

UNBELIEVABLE NowI understand why they say BEFORE you buy a Corvette take someone along who knows Corvettes, even if you have to pay them.

What sad, sad story. And probably no legal action can ever be taken because the person could always say they were not aware of such damage. These are just people with no conscience.

Yes I wanted to share that story for those that are contemplating a purchase to be aware that it is important to NOT assume a restoration is always perfect. Project cars are clues to birdcage issues, but when a car looks very good on the outside it is still very important to look at everything. Assume nothing. And yes, a detailed inspection by a expert is always the best approach.

A detailed inspection of the areas above the instrument cluster and behind the glove box would have exposed some evidence of that rust. For some reason it didn't get noticed, or a inspection never happened. I think the latter.

Also keep in mind that C60 Air Conditioned C2's are very difficult to gain visible access to the horizontal cage along the windshield. This is where inspection cameras can be used to help view those areas. Coupes are also difficult due to the hidden cage behind the door opening areas. Rust can easily be covered up with bonding materials before paint. Bubbles in the gutters and at the rear door jamb area where the upper cage meets the B-Pillar are usually a sure sign of past trouble.

Rich

[Joe R.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Hi Rich,

Thanks for posting the whole story. I'm glad it had a happy ending. It's time to look behind the glove box and dash cluster for bird cage rust!!!

Joe

[Don H.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Do you know who manufactures the windshield repair sections? I'm aware a number of vendors sell them but I'm curious as to who actually makes them.


Don

[Joe L.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Do you know who manufactures the windshield repair sections? I'm aware a number of vendors sell them but I'm curious as to who actually makes them.


Don

Don-------


I believe it's either (or, both) CSC Reproductions or Corvette Products of Michigan.

[David H.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Do you know who manufactures the windshield repair sections? I'm aware a number of vendors sell them but I'm curious as to who actually makes them. Don

Don,

The manufacturing vendor (and supplier to most large distributors) is:

Caledonia Classic Cars
6331 Ashley Ave
P.O. Box 176
Belding, MI 48809

616-794-5025
888-245-5224

He is a regular at Carlisle and very helpful answering questions. I have purchased several birdcage (who would have thought) items and always had prompt and correct orders. No web site - Nice catalog.

Dave

[Oliver S.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Here is how I inspected the birdcage after removing the kick panels:
I used a small USB camera ($15 - from Ebay) and bamboo sticks since the camera cable is very flexible. I taped the camera to a stick, which I broke accordingly so that it fit in the opening - to go up in the cage. With another stick I scratched the surface to see what is below that brown stuff. To see the birdcage/frame down below no stick was required. Most probably a more expensive mini camera with a bendable neck is easier to use ... but this did it for me.

Oliver

[Frank D.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Just yesterday I had to warn a buyer who had 'split window' fever off of this car.
He asked for my help remotely by sending me photos.
What do you think caused this ? 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count!

[Richard M.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Just yesterday I had to warn a buyer who had 'split window' fever off of this car.
He asked for my help remotely by sending me photos.
What do you think caused this ? 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count!

Defective Paint?
Factory Defect?
Water?

It's too bad that powder coating technology wasn't economically available back then when these cars were made.

Here's a '66. The birdcage is fine, but the frame is shot. Fuel line rusted out and spilled a tankful on the floor. Then the 15 year old undercoating was scraped off of the frame to expose the truth.

[Joe L.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Defective Paint?
Factory Defect?
Water?

It's too bad that powder coating technology wasn't economically available back then when these cars were made.

Here's a '66. The birdcage is fine, but the frame is shot. Fuel line rusted out and spilled a tankful on the floor. Then the 15 year old undercoating was scraped off of the frame to expose the truth.

Rich-------


There's a lot more of them out there like this than a lot of folks want to believe.

[Don H.]

Re: How do birdcages rust

Thanks for your reply......and now the rest of the story. A couple weeks ago I contacted Paragon to buy the 2 upper windshield repair pieces for my '66 coupe and was quoted $46 or $48 shipping, Mike Warren later explained the charge was what their vendor charged. So that prompted me to find the manufacturer and see if they could/would ship differently. For what it's worth USPS would ship the parts for $16.45. After searching CSC reproductions and Vett products websites I suspect the manufacturer is Caledonia, as David Houlihan indicated.

Don