Diverter Valve Muffler?

[Douglas L.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Interesting topic. To add, here is a pic from my Jan 15 build 68 L36 car. Note the lack of stake marks(just a friction fit) and the clocking of the muffler that differs from the AIM.IMG_2119.JPG

[Henry J.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Douglas:

Your's is an excellent picture, bringing enlightening detail to this discussion.

You are quite right about the lack of staking. Interestingly, as you point out, the clocking of the muffler is for a small block and not as intended for an L36!

I notice, as well, that you have the 3877608 spacer on the A.I.R. pump pivot bolt. I have that on my L36 too, with a "locking-type" nut behind it that I think may be the 2487146.

Thank you for posting.

Also, you have a corbin clamp on the manifold heater hose nipple. I have a tower clamp at that location.

[Joe L.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Douglas:

Your's is an excellent picture, bringing enlightening detail to this discussion.

You are quite right about the lack of staking. Interestingly, as you point out, the clocking of the muffler is for a small block and not as intended for an L36!

I notice, as well, that you have the 3877608 spacer on the A.I.R. pump pivot bolt. I have that on my L36 too, with a "locking-type" nut behind it that I think may be the 2487146.

Thank you for posting.

Also, you have a corbin clamp on the manifold heater hose nipple. I have a tower clamp at that location.

Henry-------


The configuration of the diverter valve used for small blocks is significantly different than that used for big blocks. For the big block valve configuration and its installation I don't see how the orientation of the muffler could have been much different than as pictured in Doug's photo.

[Edward B.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Doug's picture shows how the AIM and actual production sometimes differed! The AIM shows the muffler being clocked 32 degrees toward the pump (see attached). At this angle, it appears the side of the muffler would hit the bolt that attaches the diverter valve to the pump (see attached). I don't have a muffler on my pump, so this is only a guess, but Doug, can you see if you can clock your muffler as shown in the AIM and see if it hits anything?

Ed

[Henry J.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Ed:

I can tell you that the muffler on my car swivels fore/aft easily. I have it placed as shown in the AIM, at approximately the forward 32 degree position, without any interference issues.

[Edward B.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Thanks Henry. I guess to be "correct", it should be positioned as shown in the AIM then.

Ed

[Douglas L.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Henry, I would be interested in seeing a pic of your muffler set-up as while my muffler will rotate easily, I was unable to clock it as shown in the AIM due to interference with the diverter valve as Ed speculated. Also, the AIM shows a drawing change to the hose clamp you mentioned in 3/22/68, mine had a worm clamp there when I bought it and I used the spring clamp as I assumed the drawing change was from a spring type to a tower clamp. Additionally, truth be told, I added the 3877608 spacer(I actually used the 3925594 paragon repro) to mine for flight judging as it was missing and I assumed it had been removed over the years.

Doug

[Joe L.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Ed:

I can tell you that the muffler on my car swivels fore/aft easily. I have it placed as shown in the AIM, at approximately the forward 32 degree position, without any interference issues.

Henry------


That's exactly it. With the mufflers apparently not being staked, they would rotate "on their own". There's no way that there could have been much of an interference fit between the muffler tube and the valve or the assemblers would not have been able to install the muffler. No tool could have been used, so the muffler would have to have been "pressed on" by hand.

[John C.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Interesting diverter valve discussion, I'll add my 2 cents.

Attached is a picture of the muffler position shown in the AIM for 1968 big blocks. It's a tight fit but it does work.

I've also attached pictures of the first design one piece muffler and tube that was staked onto the pump compared to the later separate clip on muffler. If you look closely at the one piece muffler you can see the stake marks on the side. I got this off Ebay so I can't guarantee its origin.

The one piece muffler has a wire mesh grid on the inside that the clip on does not. The fiber material on the inside is also a dark gray/black and not the bright orange seen on the clip on.

When the clip on muffler was used the adapter tube was staked in place from the inside.

John

[Henry J.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Very interesting pictures, John. Thank you.

The set-up on my car looks identical to that on shown on your first picture. Your fourth picture shows beautifully what I believe to be the 7035403 adapter tube in place. Mine is the same.

We need to discuss further this business of "staking", as I need an education on this point. I don't know anything about how this is done in practice, but I assume that it involves some sort of forceful punching operation, leaving deformed metal in some sort of depression. Assuming that to be the case, I can see how this might be accomplished somehow to stake the adapter tube from the inside, as you indicate. I had never considered this possibility. What I do find difficult to visualize is how staking could be accomplished on the one-piece, "early" muffler, as called for in the AIM.

[Joe L.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

Very interesting pictures, John. Thank you.

The set-up on my car looks identical to that on shown on your first picture. Your fourth picture shows beautifully what I believe to be the 7035403 adapter tube in place. Mine is the same.

We need to discuss further this business of "staking", as I need an education on this point. I don't know anything about how this is done in practice, but I assume that it involves some sort of forceful punching operation, leaving deformed metal in some sort of depression. Assuming that to be the case, I can see how this might be accomplished somehow to stake the adapter tube from the inside, as you indicate. I had never considered this possibility. What I do find difficult to visualize is how staking could be accomplished on the one-piece, "early" muffler, as called for in the AIM.

Henry-------


Staking is as you surmised. Generally, it means upsetting the metal on one part so as to effectively retain an attached part. There are various ways that staking can be done. For example, the hose nipple component of the diverter valve is usually retained to the valve body by staking of the valve body.

It would have been utterly impossible to stake the tube section of the muffler to the valve body by internal staking of the tube. In fact, I really don't see how the even the separate tube could have been internally staked to the valve. It would have required very specialized equipment to perform a staking operation INTERNAL to the quite small tube. Of course, this would have been done at the Rochester factory and, presumably, they could have had such equipment. I highly doubt it, though.

[John C.]

Re: Diverter Valve Muffler?

It would have required very specialized equipment to perform a staking operation INTERNAL to the quite small tube. Of course, this would have been done at the Rochester factory and, presumably, they could have had such equipment. I highly doubt it, though.

Joe

Look at the picture I have attached. You can clearly see the internal staking of the separate tube. It clearly took special equipment to do this so I'm sure it had to be done at the Rochester plant and not St. Louis. The tube is staked in two places. The second is 180 degrees from the first.

With the once piece muffler the internal staking would have been impossible and they would have to have been done externally. I've never seen what this looks like on the A.I.R. pump.

John