Cost of tires in 1964

[Loren L.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

It would have a certain kinship with Senator Goldwater's '63 SWC with the built-in shortwave radio. But the rallye concept far better fits the car's equipment; the lady was SERIOUS about it.

[Michael J.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

I was also a bit suspicious of the time/distance, but my ZR1 runs at the Texas Mile took less than 40 seconds, but that is a new car. However, the 0-60 (~6.5 seconds) and 1/4 mile (~14 seconds ~100 mph) look plausible. The time sheets are controversial among the previous owners who inherited them. Some think they are real (one even claimed A.J. Foyt drove it, doubtful at best), most think they may have just been a hypothetical program result. Attached is a picture of one, I am leaning toward being just theoretical, since no place indicated. Another question for the early owners.

[Bill M.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

I put new Firestone 500 tires on my '59 in 1963 (I can't remember if I got the police version of the 500.):

[Duke W.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

I was also a bit suspicious of the time/distance, but my ZR1 runs at the Texas Mile took less than 40 seconds, but that is a new car. However, the 0-60 (~6.5 seconds) and 1/4 mile (~14 seconds ~100 mph) look plausible. The time sheets are controversial among the previous owners who inherited them. Some think they are real (one even claimed A.J. Foyt drove it, doubtful at best), most think they may have just been a hypothetical program result. Attached is a picture of one, I am leaning toward being just theoretical, since no place indicated. Another question for the early owners.

My hunch is that the printout is the output of a predictive computer program i.e. a simulation program. Note that the inputs are weight, frontal area, tire revs/mi, and gearbox ratios. What's missing is drag coefficient, rolling resistance coefficient,axle ratio, and a RWHP curve. Empirical formulas, easily coded in FORTRAN, were available back then to make predictions, and could be fairly accurate as long as the input data was reasonably accurate. Maybe the program didn't allow inputing a drag coefficient, but just used an set value for was was known to be typical for cars of that era - say about 0.50, which is actually about right for a C2 Coupe. Even if the rolling resistance coefficient was unity, it would not have a huge impact on the results since rolling resistance is not a major drag element over about 80-90 MPH. At that speed and above it's all about aero resistance.

Under "engine" it says Corvette, so maybe the program had some engine output models/data that you could select from. It could have been run on a mainframe or minicomputer, which were around in the late sixties. Many working in technology had access to computers in that era.

Don Campbell who was my Alan Green salesmen and Jerry Grant's co-driver at Sebring was a principal in an outfit called S&S
Research. They had a chassis dyno and did all the race prep on Alan Green's Z-06. Back in '63 SCCA rules said that the engine had to be basically "stock", and in particular "no metal could be removed from the heads", but "tuning" was allowed. Stock exhaust manifolds had to be installed, but open exhaust (exiting behind the driver) was allowed, which precipitated the first use of "side pipes", which could easily be implemented on a C2 by removing the rocker moldings and securing the pipe to the frame rail. Don said the engine made about 250 RWHP, and that was probably with STP correction because it was years before SAE correction was developed. SAE correction would be about 239, which is reasonable for a "blueprint stock" '63 FI engine with open exhaust and no fan.

I recall Road & Track tested a '63 FI 4-speed./3.70 Positraction and the quarter mile was about 14.5 at just under 100 MPH. Back then R & T listed frontal area, which was arbitrarily computed as 80 percent of the OA height times width that worked out to be 20 square feet for the '63 Sting Ray.

The couple of times I drag raced my 340 SWC an Puyallup, my best ET was 14.42 at 102 MPH with open exhaust cutouts. That was with the Michelins and any attempt at a "launch" just lite them up into smoke. With the CR trans and 3.08 axle it was a dog off the line, but I only had to shift once and crossed the line at about 6500 in second gear. The exhaust cutouts no doubt helped the speed through the traps, but probably didn't do too much for the ET.

I got beat out of the hole a lot, but was closing the gap on most after the halfway point. I remember telling people if we had a half-mile drag strip I would probably beat just about all the non-modified production cars, and a mile would be even better.

Note the 3rd gear data at 1109 feet. If we assume an average speed of 98 MPH (144 ft/sec) to cover the remaining 211 feet to 1320, the additional time amounts to 211/144 = 1.46 seconds. Add this to the 13.19 seconds at 1109 feet and the quarter mile time is 14.65 seconds, which seems very reasonable, but would require a "perfect launch". Simulating a real launch would be difficult because everything is nonlinear.

Duke

[Michael J.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

Wow! Thanks, that is a good data point for what a set of normal tires would have cost, I forgot how cheap they were. With the cost of Duke's radials, I am guessing the lady bought some high priced tires for that $211.15 on top of the 4 set new take-offs of the WSW 670X15, probably Goodyear Power Cushions. I will ask my brother, who ran a Goodyear store in the '60s, if he has any ideas too, and I'll ask the Shelby crowd, who have lots of info on Blue Dots and Blue Streak tires from the day, and see what the price ranges could be for those.

[Michael J.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

Thanks Duke, great info and experiences there. Did you ever run a flying mile type course back then? I agree the printout is probably a simulation, but perhaps a pretty accurate one it seems. I guess we all imagined the FI Corvettes were a lot faster back in the day than they really were. Modern cars have spoiled us when it comes to power delivery these days.

[Duke W.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

No, I never did any kind of timed top speed event. I figure I was lucky to have a drag strip and great road racing course nearby. My favorite was road racing.

The Michelins were definitely premium priced back in the day, but less expensive than the Pirellis as I recall. I do remember that the Sports Car Specials were $45 and the Michelins were about the same. Back then I think there was also the left over from WW II excise tax on tires about 2 bucks each.

When I bought the Sports Car Specials from Shelby in the mid seventies he still kept them priced at $45. I thought it was a steal!

Duke

[Michael J.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

Thanks Duke. After quizzing some other sources, the consensus is that the Goodyear Blue Dot or Blue Streaks were common replacement tires in the day for people wanting a better performance tire too, along with the radials. The Goodyears were running around $57 per tire in '64, so guess it could have been either those or the radials. I was thinking about dressing the car for shows in the "as raced" condition, and since they do make reproductions of the Goodyears, and they look nice too on a white car, I may go that direction. Of course for NCRS judging I will stick with the 670 Power Cushion WSWs I already have, that match the window sticker. I am wondering what rally cars in the day had in the way of meatballs and numbers, sponsor signs, etc. But guess I will never know what it really looked like then unless I find the original owner.

[Dave H.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

Montgomery Ward's would sell you two tires for $22...I have the ad from the SE Missourian from Feb 67
:-)

[Michael J.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

That's neat, and when I put $211 into an inflation calculator in 1964, it is about $1600 today, so pretty expensive set of tires the lady bought for the car.

[Leif A.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

I put new Firestone 500 tires on my '59 in 1963 (I can't remember if I got the police version of the 500.):

$27.38 for a wash?? More expensive than a tire

[John H.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

Wow! Thanks, that is a good data point for what a set of normal tires would have cost, I forgot how cheap they were.

I bought a pair of Atlas Bucron 7.10-15's from my local Standard station just about every Thursday night back in '61 for my Buick "nailhead" powered '53, and I still remember they were $18.00 a pair. They only lasted one weekend on Woodward in those days, but that's what Bucrons were all about.

[Michael J.]

[Stuart F.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

I ran two sizes over Goodyear Double Eagles for an entire drag season in 1962 on my "B Stock?" 57 post chevy, and ran consistent low 13's.

Stu Fox

[Larry M.]

Re: Cost of tires in 1964

Doing research and saw this old post. In 64 Yenko had a corvette upgrade brochure which included tires. I copied these pics from an ebay ad. The detail is readable.

My car came with dealer installed Michelin X Radials on on 5 dealer installed KO wheels. I have $447.45 in dealer options on my original BOS less $322.80 list for KO's leaves $124.65 for a tire/wheel swap for P92 whitewalls which were on the sticker; howerer, I can't be sue of this as there are other dealer options which might have been there at delivery. If you use the $33.53 Yenko trader price times 5 you get $167.65. For ball park you might assume that difference to the $124.65 is a $43 credit for 5 steel wheel.

The tires were advertised at 60K miles...mine have about 38k on them and look to be on track with no age cracking...the spare still has all the mold flash. I have driven them; they have tubes. But using tires this old is high risk.