How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

[Mike E.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

Ara, I appreciate your jumping in, but I guess I'm in the slow group today. The validation papers that I have for my green 67 convertible indicate the specific VIN for that car. I was under the impression that the ident. no. was tied to a specific car, ergo specific options per that tank sticker. Once that has been submitted and validated, are those not tied together in perpetuity? It seems to me, if one was going to fake it, they would need the original tank sticker, take the ident. no., get a good quality aged tank sticker made with the options they wanted, and submit that for validation. Does the NCRS have information that precludes doing that and that then would not allow validation of that supposedly-original (but actually bogus) tank sticker? I hope they do, otherwise that makes any validation suspect, doesn't it?

[Edward C.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

Hello Mike,
Thanks for sending out the hose to me.

I've chimed in before when it comes to the validation service in older threads and have never gotten a very clear answer but I've guessed on what NCRS uses to validate the docs. If anyone is familiar with a NICB report it has the Ident number and Order number found on tank stickers, window stickers and some other docs. These are unique to each cars VIN. From what I understand these reports are almost identical to the Shipper report NCRS uses and has access to. I believe NICB used the shipper report. These do not have specific car options on them. The order number came from a pad the dealer used to order cars and choose/check off options. I can scan a copy of a 68 and 69 sheet and show the number up top. Its also interesting the way the letters and numbers were used for dealers in 69. ive made many notes on it. When the order was submitted the car at some point would get the Ident number. Not sure how that was selected.

This is the first I heard of where NCRS will verify a document that does not have a VIN number supplied by the requester. In other words if I would have my Tank sticker verified I assumed I would have to also give NCRS my VIN number the tank sticker was tied to. Otherwise how in the world could they cross reference the ident or order number? They are probably using the microfieshed shipper reports that I would think are cataloged by VIN. I don't know this but that's what I would have suspected? Also I think you can only submit docs for a specific VIN only one time? That's why I haven't submitted some of mine. I have a car in which the dealer is still in business! I want to see if I can convince them to give me there file on my car. The last thing I want to do is submit what I have then get a folder full of some great docs I can't verify because I used up that VIN already.

The problem I had originally with this system (and hopefully NCRS has increased there criteria for verification) was I felt they were putting too much emphasis on the ident and order number which could lead to easily faking a document. If you now your cars numbers then place them on a phony doc with better options it might pass.

Like many of you I have been around the cars for decades and have been fortunate enough to see many real docs from original cars to be able to compare and tell what's real versus fake but they are getting better all the time. I've seen improved changes in the phony docs. So I've been making a database with pictures of fake docs when I see them so if these cars show up with better fake docs at least I'll know. They still can't get the fonts perfect along with some other things I've noted but its probably just a matter of time.

I think its great that NCRS is offering the service I just hope they continue to look for as much detail as possible outside of the GM reference numbers. There are so many little details about tank stickers, window stickers and others that I've noticed over the years (but I'm limited to 69s specifically cause that's what I've collected) that nobody mentions and I'm sure its that way with other years. Maybe they don't say anything because the fakers will use the info, maybe nobody notices or cares. I don't know. But the more you look, even if you search the Internet, the more you will see for yourself for what's real and what's not.

[Michael J.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

I agree with ARA, but will say that specifically, if you have your tank sticker validated by NCRS, it is pretty solid for the car which VIN # matches that validation. I was originally talking about what happens if you take a tank sticker off the tank, or take the tank out of the car and keep it with the sticker on it, the chain of custody of the sticker and/or tank during that process and afterward is important to document, since once it is separated from the car anything can happen in the future. I have heard of people who take a tank sticker, duplicate the ID numbers on it, and then fake new options onto a fake sticker, thus creating an "air" car they can load with options that would perhaps validate with the VIN of the car the ID #'s were taken from, even though that car did not originally come with those options. I know some who want stickers not only validated by NCRS with their ID number database, but a forensic paper and daisy wheel font expert to look as well. I don't know about all that, I still think the NCRS validation is about as good as it gets.

[Ara G.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

I agree with ARA, but will say that specifically, if you have your tank sticker validated by NCRS, it is pretty solid for the car which VIN # matches that validation. I was originally talking about what happens if you take a tank sticker off the tank, or take the tank out of the car and keep it with the sticker on it, the chain of custody of the sticker and/or tank during that process and afterward is important to document, since once it is separated from the car anything can happen in the future. I have heard of people who take a tank sticker, duplicate the ID numbers on it, and then fake new options onto a fake sticker, thus creating an "air" car they can load with options that would perhaps validate with the VIN of the car the ID #'s were taken from, even though that car did not originally come with those options. I know some who want stickers not only validated by NCRS with their ID number database, but a forensic paper and daisy wheel font expert to look as well. I don't know about all that, I still think the NCRS validation is about as good as it gets.

Mike and Mike, my point exactly. Once the tank sheet leaves the car I personally would document the removal process, document what sheet was verified, and keep in safe keeping. My point exactly. The unscrupulous stop at nothing, especially when it comes to 67s. Over cautious is what us OCD types are all about. Right is right, everything else has a story. Best to all you guys. Ara

[Rocco S.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

Thanks to everyone that responded to my original question about removing the tank sticker from my '67 L-79 coupe. I just wanted to let everyone know that I was able to clean the inside of the original tank and it will be re-installed with the tank sticker still in place but covered with plastic and taped around the edges. I took several nice digital photos for historical purposes.

Even though I don't plan to sell the car, I will know that the tank sticker is still with the car.

[Enzo C.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

Hi Rocco, I like your style... Great idea to leave it as it was in 67... I own the same car

[Jimmy P.]

Re: How To Remove Tank Sticker From Tank

Rocco,
Glad to hear that the tank and sticker are going to remain on the car.