smog pump bearings

[Edward B.]

I just picked up a "well loved" 68 big block smog pump (A.I.R. Pump) off my local Craigslist, and as you would imagine, it was frozen. I pulled the rear housing and out came 12 needle bearings, so the rear bearing (and one of the vanes) is shot. I plan on gutting it, so the broken vane isn't a big deal, but I'll be hanged if I can find the part number for the rear bearing! The P&A only shows P/N 5696030 in Group 3.665, but it's for "66-67 All and 68-69 Corvair". And it doesn't say WHICH bearing it is (front or rear).

Does anyone know what the part number (and a possible interchange) this rear bearing is? I can press it out, but I need to replace it with something!!

Thanks
Ed

[Joe L.]

Re: smog pump bearings

I just picked up a "well loved" 68 big block smog pump (A.I.R. Pump) off my local Craigslist, and as you would imagine, it was frozen. I pulled the rear housing and out came 12 needle bearings, so the rear bearing (and one of the vanes) is shot. I plan on gutting it, so the broken vane isn't a big deal, but I'll be hanged if I can find the part number for the rear bearing! The P&A only shows P/N 5696030 in Group 3.665, but it's for "66-67 All and 68-69 Corvair". And it doesn't say WHICH bearing it is (front or rear).

Does anyone know what the part number (and a possible interchange) this rear bearing is? I can press it out, but I need to replace it with something!!

Thanks
Ed

Ed-------

GM never offered any SERVICE component parts for 1968+ AIR pumps except for the centrifugal filter ("fan"). These units were SERVICED by GM as an assembly only. You'll probably need to contact an AIR system specialist like Bill Hodel to obtain parts.

[Edward B.]

Re: smog pump bearings

That's what I figured Joe. I DID find a part number for the front bearing - NTN-6203LLBC3 (basically just a 6203 front alternator bearing with a lot of other manufacturer interchanges), but nothing for the rear yet. I'll call Bill and see what he says.

Ed

[Michael B.]

Re: smog pump bearings

Are you sure you want to gut the pump? Without air blowing through the system the check valves are going to see way more heat that they were designed for and with fail in short order. You will notice this when the injection hoses dry up and begin to burn at the check valves. Reality is that this system only works on the combustion gases AFTER the combustion chamber and helps complete incomplete combustion at the backside of the exhaust valve. It has very little effect on horsepower and you will notice the difference while sitting in traffic breathing exhaust fumes.

[Mike M.]

Re: smog pump bearings

back in the late 90's, i drove my 67 435, which i had recently finished restoring , to collinsville for its Duntov(which it achieved). anyway, i had gutted the smog pump, plugged the exhaust manifolds, and didn't experience any problems on the way out or back. . as i recall, the trip out to collinsville and back to cumberland was about 1200 miles in the hellish hot summer that year. i sold it about 5 years ago and the new owner successfully took the car thru the duntov process again. to date, no problems with check valve/hose problems. perhaps because i plugged the exhaust manifolds? mike

[Edward B.]

Re: smog pump bearings

Are you sure you want to gut the pump?

No choice. One of the vanes is broken and replacements just aren't available.

anyway, i had gutted the smog pump, plugged the exhaust manifolds, and didn't experience any problems on the way out or back.

Exactly. Place a 1/4-20 screw in the smog tubes where it screws into the exhaust manifold, plug the vacuum port for the diverter valve and off you go.

By the way, I found the part numbers for the two bearings. The front is a 6203-RS (the same as the front alternator bearing, but sealed on both sides) and the rear is a B-248.

On the rear bearing, the only difference between the original New Departure-Hyatt J248G bearing (below right) and the replacement B-248 bearing (below left) is the number of needle bearings. The original only had 18 needle bearings and the replacement has 35 needle bearings.

Ed

[Joe L.]

Re: smog pump bearings

No choice. One of the vanes is broken and replacements just aren't available.



Exactly. Place a 1/4-20 screw in the smog tubes where it screws into the exhaust manifold, plug the vacuum port for the diverter valve and off you go.

By the way, I found the part numbers for the two bearings. The front is a 6203-RS (the same as the front alternator bearing, but sealed on both sides) and the rear is a B-248.

On the rear bearing, the only difference between the original New Departure-Hyatt J248G bearing (below right) and the replacement B-248 bearing (below left) is the number of needle bearings. The original only had 18 needle bearings and the replacement has 35 needle bearings.

Ed

Ed-------


A few comments:

1) As I've mentioned on numerous previous occasions, driving a car with an operable AIR system is much more enjoyable. Exhaust fumes are greatly lessened, including those that waft into the passenger compartment. I proved this for myself with absolute certainty as I've described previously;

2) Your pump could be repaired. At a minimum, you could obtain another similar pump and use the vanes out of it. I bet Bill Hodel has these anyway. Somehow, commercial rebuilders obtain the internal parts;

3) Functionality of the AIR system can be checked on a performance verification. On deceleration air is "dumped" through the muffler on the diverter valve;

4) Whether or not your car is subject to emissions inspection, it's a violation of federal law to disable, tamper with, or remove any emissions-related components from an engine originally so-equipped. The chances of getting caught are very small, of course, but the fine if caught is very large.

[Edward B.]

Re: smog pump bearings

I'm sure you're right on all counts Joe, but finding replacement parts is almost impossible. I reached out to Bill and he doesn't seem to want to give out part numbers or sell replacement parts (which is understandable since restoring these things is his business).

I've spoken to a few of the Corvette suppliers and they don't have access to the vanes and I even tried to contact A1 Cardone, but no reply. David Crane down in San Diego would by my next step, and I'll stop by the next time I'm in his neighborhood, but again, I have a feeling that part numbers and replacement parts wouldn't be forthcoming since he also restores these pumps.

If I can find part numbers for the BAKELITE vanes I'll post them here, so let's keep our fingers crossed!

And by the way, one last part number for the vane bearings - BA65

Ed

[Joe L.]

Re: smog pump bearings

I'm sure you're right on all counts Joe, but finding replacement parts is almost impossible. I reached out to Bill and he doesn't seem to want to give out part numbers or sell replacement parts (which is understandable since restoring these things is his business).

I've spoken to a few of the Corvette suppliers and they don't have access to the vanes and I even tried to contact A1 Cardone, but no reply. David Crane down in San Diego would by my next step, and I'll stop by the next time I'm in his neighborhood, but again, I have a feeling that part numbers and replacement parts wouldn't be forthcoming since he also restores these pumps.

If I can find part numbers for the BAKELITEvanes I'll post them here, so let's keep our fingers crossed!

And by the way, one last part number for the vane bearings - BA65

Ed

Ed-------


The most you'd need to do is purchase a rebuilt pump and transfer all the internal parts to your pump. It might even be less expensive than purchasing all the parts separately even if you could find them that way.

[Edward B.]

Re: smog pump bearings

Joe, about 3 years ago I got a Cardone pump for a friends 68 Z28 from AutoZone for $32.00 plus a $6.00 core charge (he didn't have his original pump anymore). It didn't have a date code on it and the finishes weren't correct, but for his purposes it was just fine.

Flash forward 3 years and now these things are $175.00 (or more)!!

Either the demand has gone WAY up, or the supply has gone WAY down. I can't imagine it being the later since the core charge has only gone up a dollar!

Bill restores them for $225.00, so if I were going to go that route, I'd send it to Bill before I got a rebuilt pump from Cardone.

Ed

[Joe L.]

Re: smog pump bearings

Joe, about 3 years ago I got a Cardone pump for a friends 68 Z28 from AutoZone for $32.00 plus a $6.00 core charge (he didn't have his original pump anymore). It didn't have a date code on it and the finishes weren't correct, but for his purposes it was just fine.

Flash forward 3 years and now these things are $175.00 (or more)!!

Either the demand has gone WAY up, or the supply has gone WAY down. I can't imagine it being the later since the core charge has only gone up a dollar!

Bill restores them for $225.00, so if I were going to go that route, I'd send it to Bill before I got a rebuilt pump from Cardone.

Ed

Ed-------


The problem could be that the cost for the parts to rebuild them has gone way up. The 68-75 AIR pump, while used across GM car lines, was last used on a car 40 years ago. How many 40 year old cars do you see running around these days? When it comes to parts, low sales volume= high price. This could very well include the internal parts for these pumps.

The A1 Cardone rebuilt pumps are premium rebuilds and contain all new internal parts, including the vanes. So, there must definitely be a source for these parts. Many times, parts available to commercial rebuilders are not available generally in the retail automotive parts world.

One more suggestion for parts: MANY years ago I was looking for parts to rebuild a waterpump. At that time, such internal parts were impossible to locate. So, when I was in the Los Angeles area, an area where there were once many automotive parts rebuilders, I visited several. Most would not even talk to me about internal parts (or, even, complete waterpumps as they were manufacturers only). Finally, I visited a kind of funky commercial rebuilder and they were VERY nice to me. They sold me all the parts I wanted and at a dirt cheap price. They're still there and maybe it's worth a call.

Salgado Automotive Rebuilders
3475 Whittier Bl.
Los Angeles, CA 90023
(323) 269-7977

[Edward B.]

Re: smog pump bearings

Thanks Joe. I'll give them a call.

There's a VERY old man about 5 miles from me that has owned his automotive electrical shop for over 60 years. He's still in business and I had him rebuild my 1100884 alternator for me. He's a great guy and will sorely be missed when he finally retires.

Ed