1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

[Dale B.]

Searched about every way I could but did not find a previous thread with this situation.

The aluminum radiator in my 60 finally gave up - but after all the reading I have done the past week I'm amazed I did not kill it years ago. I believe it is the original radiator - the one thing I am sure of it is the same radiator that was in the car when I bought it the first time in 1968. Never looked at the data plate on the top tank until today - mine has no stamping on it at all. I believe it should have a part number and build date? The tag is the one held on by two small screws. The car was built the first production day of 1960.

My question is more just one of curiosity than anything else. Having spent my working life as a manufacturing engineer I understand that sometimes things happen that should not.

Thanks.

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

Which motor? No signs of a JBWeld/Bondo #s/ltrs filling?

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

Dale, Interesting no stamps on yours. Is the engine a high performance original? Only certain engines got that top tank.

I got a Dewitt's Top Tank unit for this '60 a few years ago. This is what the tag looked like. Originals pretty similar except aged of coarse.

P9250031.jpgP9250014.jpg

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

I got a Dewitt's Top Tank unit for this '60 a few years ago. This is what the tag looked like. Originals pretty similar except aged of coarse.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]64522[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]64523[/ATTACH]

That tag is for an early 61. It should be a 3147516 for a 1960. For some reason, Tom sent me a top tank rad. with the same tag but sent me the correct one when I questioned him about it.

[Dale B.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

Loren -

Car was original FI. Tag is clean and unmolested. I'm in shop right now, took some pictures - which I should have done to start with. Will upload pictures later whenever I get back in house.

Dale

[Terry K.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

Dale, I suspect your radiator was replaced prior to you owning it in 1968. I also have a 60 with the tank top radiator. IIRC, it's tag looked like yours when I got the car in 1970. A few years later I ran into a previous owner who told me the radiator was replaced a few years before I go it. If my recollections are correct concerning reading many posts on this forum, GM had a lot to learn about aluminum radiators back in the early 60s. I believe there was serious chemical reaction "issues" that caused early failures .... even deterioration of NOS sitting on the shelf would deteriorate. I bought a DeWitt replacement years ago and it has been just perfect.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

That tag is for an early 61. It should be a 3147516 for a 1960. For some reason, Tom sent me a top tank rad. with the same tag but sent me the correct one when I questioned him about it.

Jim, I questioned that tag and number with Tom Dewitt when I got it.

See this thread for pertinent info when he and I spoke. Much confusion but some dated blueprints surfaced about the part# change, which BTW was a addition of a small pipe which changed the assembled part#. The change happened 6/1/60 and the car pictured was late June build so we left it as is.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?102381-1960-Top-Tank-Radiator-Part-number-question&highlight=top+tank+radiator

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

I missed that thread however in a previous thread on this issue, Loren Lundberg posted -
"Even though the print for 3151116 was released 6/14/60, there is one HUGE difference; the print for 3147516 is titled "1960 Chevrolet 'Corvette'
(High performance)" and the print for 3151116 is titled "1961 Chevrolet Corvette".

IT TYPICALLY TAKES AT LEAST 3 - 4 MONTHS FROM DRAWING RELEASE to start of production."

It seems logical that no 60's were built with 3151116 rad. DeWitt's site lists it for early 1961 only. Years ago I had a long talk with Noland Adams about the "new" aluminum rads. and the problems they had with them. There were several 1960's that left the assembly line with the HP rad. support (drain on the drivers side) with a copper rad. installed with a new drain hole hap-hazardly cut into the pass. side of the rad. support because no aluminum rads. were available at that particular time and they weren't going to stop production because of it. I've seen one of those in person.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag

Jim, Yes I think Tom probably changed that part# reference on his site after we got the info from Loren. I probably should have swapped the tag with him then. I had other issues going on with that engine then and took a bit away from the fun of research. I was a bit wrapped up.....
here and here
Get a big bag-o-chips and a case-o-cola before you start reading.

Rich

[Dale B.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag - Pictures

I have no way of knowing if this was a replacement radiator. But even if it was, should have a part number and date on it if that is part of the manufacturing process. I'm assuming here that a spare was stocked as the same part number, per usual way of doing things. If I'm wrong on that I'm sure some GM expert will correct me.

As I said, car was original FI. You will see in the pictures the epoxy repair in the corner by the inlet. That was present when I bought the car, 27 December 1968. Car was built 1 June 1960. I had the car up on blocks from August 1970 until summer of 1979 with the cooling system drained. Its second dry period of August 1998 until a week ago did not help, although the radiator was no problem at all in 1998 - problem was a connecting rod failure.

Here are the pictures of the radiator.

[Michael K.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag - Pictures

Are there dates on the inlet/outlet where the hoses go. thats where the cast-in dates were on my original. I can send pictures if you want from an original and an early 60's gm replacement. The dates were stampted on the blue tag when the cars were built.

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag - Pictures

Are there dates on the inlet/outlet where the hoses go. thats where the cast-in dates were on my original. I can send pictures if you want from an original and an early 60's gm replacement. The dates were stampted on the blue tag when the cars were built.

I would suspect that the stampings on the blue tags were by Harrison indicating when the radiator was built, not when the car was built. The dates on the inlet/outlet would also reflect the date that those castings were done, not the assembly of the radiator.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag - Pictures

Dale, I guess its a moot point now but interesting why the tag isn't stamped. Maybe the numbers were ink stamped on that tag and wore off over time with cleaners or solvents. Who knows at this point.

Regardless, stacked aluminum radiators don't last when they're not filled with anti-corrisive elements found in anti-freeze. By storing it empty, it may have allowed internal residual salts used in the original manufacturing process to eat the aluminum from the inside. I learned that from Tom years ago after buying 2 used dated aluminum radiators for my '62 project car. They both pizzed out from everywhere when tested.

Are you planning to use that radiator? It's amazing looking at those photos of the epoxy repair that it lasted as long as it did back then. And try to be gentle with those side brackets as they're nice originals that have unique features that the reproductions don't have.

One thing that may help cooling with it after being tested at a shop, or your new replacement if you go with a highly recommended Dewiits Top Tank unit, is to add a seal at the bottom to fill the gap with sheet rubber glued in against the lower face of the radiator to the lower horizontal of the support.. Like this.....
PB030012.jpgPB030013.jpgPB030014.jpgPB030016.jpg

Not original but will aid to direct airflow through the right places. Why the factory left that big gap there is a mystery to me.

Rich

[Dale B.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag - Pictures

Michael -

I'll take you up on you offer as to where you found dates cast in the inlet/outlet. In trying to pick the place up yesterday, after I took the pictures I put the radiator (and shroud) on the top level of pallet racking in the shop, as I won't be needing it right away. If I know where to look I can do it from the ladder and not drag the unit down.

[Dale B.]

Re: 1960 Aluminum Radiator Tag - Pictures

Rich -

As you said, it is a moot point now, but I figured this thing might be an aberration so figured I would post it. Another data point from 45+ years go.

As I mentioned, had no problem with the radiator up until the engine let go in 98. Ten days ago when I was trying to fire up the engine I finally got around to finishing rebuild on was when she started puking. After going through all the data here on the forum about these I was amazed it lasted as long as it did. GM process engineering thought they had a good solution (pun intended) for dip brazing back in 60, but one that does not look good in hind sight.

I figure that radiator is toast - no easy way to disassemble/clean. She acted plugged and was spewing all kinds of gunk out. Like you , I'm amazed at the epoxy repair holding up, I was always leery that it would let go at some inopportune time. Back in 69/70 I drag raced it some but never had an issue. You answered one question - I was hoping I could use the brackets with a new core. For right now, I 'borrowed' the low hp radiator out of the other 60 I own (long story and a daughter who would not let me get rid of the 'red' car when my original 'white' car came home ). That had a couple of leaks and the local shop fixed them, pressure tested it fine and so far so good. For an engine I built up a 64 283, put in 097 with solid lifters. For starters am using a WCFB. Next spring will probably put the FI back on it and at that point most likely a DeWitt replacement, but have research to do before committing on that, figuring out options. Maybe use the old tag and do the proper 'stamp'. When I got the car in 68 the original engine was gone, but everything else in the car in outstanding shape - had 34 K miles on it. Now just shy of 54 K, due mainly to the two periods on blocks and the one owner who did not drive it enough in 6 years to even say it was driven. I like driving the car and am just not into getting it 'perfect' - it is 'correct' up to a point. Maybe, down the road....

I like your air dam to increase the air flow. My compressible fluid flow course was in 69, I think, and heat transfer spring of 70 - guess if I wanted to really get a headache I could try and figure out what it would gain! Am assuming you just used weatherstrip adhesive to fasten the rubber sheet in? What thickness? I am a firm believer in stealing good ideas, not reinventing the wheel. I can see where this would definitely help things.

The only thing I need to do now is, after lots of research here, and reading that good article in 2002 Rocky Mountain Chapter newsletter, is to figure out valid resistor value to make my temperature gauge read somewhat correctly. With IR gun temperature of 190 at thermostat housing the gauge is pegged at 220. Will have to plot some data to get it to where it functions if temp goes high but is not already over the peg at normal operating temperatures. Ideally I should do the testing on the entire system, but if data supports an easy fix I will go with that.

Dale