58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

[Patrick H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

The exhaust blackout is too smooth (originally applied with just a hand held mitt that was dunked into a can)

Brad,

The "mitt" urban legend has been thoroughly discussed here over the years and is dead. They were not ever "mitted" no matter what the year.

Patrick

[Thomas H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Brad,

The "mitt" urban legend has been thoroughly discussed here over the years and is dead. They were not ever "mitted" no matter what the year.

Patrick

What type of paint was used on the exhaust and how much coverage? I need to do this also..........

Tom

[Dennis C.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Which kind of begs the question of "Why are they in the JG if they are not even judged?" I think the answer to that question is...... "Because we want to include every bit of knowledge that we can, even if it is unclear as to why or how it is done" This confuses new members to NCRS because all they are nervously trying to do is to create a car that will pass judging.

Brad,

We included the markings we find most often on original unrestored cars, mostly Bowtie cars, in the JM to document our findings for future generations. True, we may not have all of the answers as to why they were placed there, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be documented.

We also include a clear note indicating that the marks are not to be judged. This was included to insure consistency and put the owner at ease.

Dennis

[Dennis C.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

And I understand all of that.
But the basic question still remains: What color was applied where, and, what do each of the colors signify?

THUS, if people are applying colors at various places, HOW DO THEY KNOW WHICH COLOR GOES WHERE FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
Is it a case of monkey see, monkey do, without any solid knowledge of why they are applying a color at a particular location?
Plus, as has already been mentioned, and as is already known, everything got covered up with black anyway.

Personally, I'm not into numbers and correct markings, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, when I rebuild frontends (as well as rearends) for people, and they ask me about the various paint markings, I am not able to provide a definitive answer--------------------------and so far, none of the NCRS gurus (the experts in perfectness) are able to answer that question either!

Tom,

I completely agree with you. There is much we don't know about these cars, but we are still hunting and investigating. While there are some ideas (and Gary's comments below are very valid) we may never know. However, what we do know, is certain colors are found on unrestored cars at certain locations and we have made an attempt to document those findings.

Dennis

[Gary C.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Dennis,

The 56-7 Judging Manual addresses the colors and uses for front suspension part identification paint marks.

Yellow on the rear axle end and shaft indicates a positraction rear end. White paint on the axle shaft and ends indicates a standard rearend.

I've not found any documentation on the inspection marks such as what Mike pointed out inside the pumpkin, gears, etc and on the pinion nut.

Gary
....

[John H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

What type of paint was used on the exhaust and how much coverage? I need to do this also..........

Tom

Tom -

Per Dale Pearman's notes (RIP), the chassis blackout paint was GM "Underbody Protective Coating" P/N 3686683, a sprayable black asphaltic mastic; it was applied via airless spray guns on both sides of the line fed by air-operated Johnstone pumps inserted directly into the drums of paint. The booth was a crude canvas-walled affair that was the last station on the Chassis Line prior to Body Drop.

[Thomas H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Brad,

We included the markings we find most often on original unrestored cars, mostly Bowtie cars, in the JM to document our findings for future generations. True, we may not have all of the answers as to why they were placed there, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be documented.

We also include a clear note indicating that the marks are not to be judged. This was included to insure consistency and put the owner at ease.

Dennis

Dennis,

Different but similar question - rear spring, top leaf, silver or black?

Based on John's response below, I'm thinking black with coverage over the spring clamps also. This would be consistent with what I found on my 60, but don't know if the 58's are any different.

Thanks,

Tom

[Thomas H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Tom -

Per Dale Pearman's notes (RIP), the chassis blackout paint was GM "Underbody Protective Coating" P/N 3686683, a sprayable black asphaltic mastic; it was applied via airless spray guns on both sides of the line fed by air-operated Johnstone pumps inserted directly into the drums of paint. The booth was a crude canvas-walled affair that was the last station on the Chassis Line prior to Body Drop.

Hi John,

So this material was also applied to the exhaust also? How was the exhaust installation handled since you can't drop the body with the complete exhaust mounted as the tail pipes need to go through the body. Was the exhaust assembled up to that point, then body drop, then the tail pipe install?

Tom

[Tom P.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Tom -

Per Dale Pearman's notes (RIP), the chassis blackout paint was GM "Underbody Protective Coating" P/N 3686683, a sprayable black asphaltic mastic; it was applied via airless spray guns on both sides of the line fed by air-operated Johnstone pumps inserted directly into the drums of paint. The booth was a crude canvas-walled affair that was the last station on the Chassis Line prior to Body Drop.

John,
Was the blackout paint applied BEFORE the engine/trans were set into the chassis? Otherwise it would seem that the engine/trans would have had black paint sprayed on them. Looking at the pictures in Noland's book, it APPEARS the chassis is already black when the engine/trans are being lowered.

[Dennis C.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Dennis,

Different but similar question - rear spring, top leaf, silver or black?

Based on John's response below, I'm thinking black with coverage over the spring clamps also. This would be consistent with what I found on my 60, but don't know if the 58's are any different.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

i have seen it both ways, meaning some silver showing or all black. Usually the clamp is natural.

Regards,

Dennis

[Dennis C.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Dennis,

The 56-7 Judging Manual addresses the colors and uses for front suspension part identification paint marks.

Yellow on the rear axle end and shaft indicates a positraction rear end. White paint on the axle shaft and ends indicates a standard rearend.

I've not found any documentation on the inspection marks such as what Mike pointed out inside the pumpkin, gears, etc and on the pinion nut.

Gary
....

Hi Gary,

Yes, I now remember you telling me that before. We have many of the same markings identified in the 61-62 manual. But I do think you have some identified that we weren't able to verify.

Thanks for the reminder.

Regards,

Dennis

[Dan H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Thomas, I restored a very untouched 59 years ago and the silver top spring on the rear spring was covered in tar based blackout, washed off easily with gasoline. Looked like the car was shot with final blackout on it's wheels, from the top in a very random method, hit and miss. Top of front sway bar was hit from the top also, and probably the exhaust system also. Not pretty!
Dan

[John H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Hi John,

So this material was also applied to the exhaust also? How was the exhaust installation handled since you can't drop the body with the complete exhaust mounted as the tail pipes need to go through the body. Was the exhaust assembled up to that point, then body drop, then the tail pipe install?

Tom

Tom -

Based on the original GM photos taken at Body Drop, that appears to be the method of '57-'60 tailpipe installation.

[John H.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

John,
Was the blackout paint applied BEFORE the engine/trans were set into the chassis? Otherwise it would seem that the engine/trans would have had black paint sprayed on them. Looking at the pictures in Noland's book, it APPEARS the chassis is already black when the engine/trans are being lowered.

Tom -

The chassis blackout paint was only sprayed inside the booth at the end of the Chassis Line. The front suspension crossmember assembly and the frame arrived at the plant already painted black, and the chassis blackout was a final cover-up operation.

[Brad K.]

Re: 58 Front Suspension Reassembly and colors

Patrick....Yes....I guess you are right......I went back into the archives about 10 years ago and found the thread. I was not active in NCRS at the time and I must have missed the conversation. Prior to that point I had heard about "mitts" so much that it "stuck" with me....