Bowtie and Flight judging

[Michael J.]

If your car is invited as a Bowtie candidate for judging at the National, if you also want it flight judged, do you have to do that at the same National?

[Dave S.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

If your car is invited as a Bowtie candidate for judging at the National, if you also want it flight judged, do you have to do that at the same National?

Michael,
I have always combined the Bowtie attempt with a Duntov attempt at National Convention's and that was always allowed and encouraged. Bowtie with a flight judge only is not anything I have ever seen or heard of. Dave Brigham will confirm that.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Thanks, so let me understand, are you saying Bowtie Judging and Flight judging at the same National has not been done unless the car is going for a Duntov?

[Dave S.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Thanks, so let me understand, are you saying Bowtie Judging and Flight judging at the same National has not been done unless the car is going for a Duntov?

That is my understanding.........

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

OK, thanks, it appears that is the way the judging guide defines it. So, if you want flight judging, that must be done at a regional when you get invited for Bowtie judging at a National, but then you are done unless you get 97+ in the regional Flight and pass PV, then and only then you can get Flight judged at a National as a Duntov candidate.

[Dave S.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

OK, thanks, it appears that is the way the judging guide defines it. So, if you want flight judging, that must be done at a regional when you get invited for Bowtie judging at a National, but then you are done unless you get 97+ in the regional Flight and pass PV, then and only then you can get Flight judged at a National as a Duntov candidate.

That at is the way it works. Obviously the PV will be at a subsequent Regional and prior to the chosen National. By doing it that way you save two additional meets. First is when you get your 97+ and Bow tie sign off at the first regional. Second is by having the Bow tie judging and 97+ National judging at the same meet. If you weren't able to do it that way the process would be even more cumbersome and some people may be discouraged by that. The NCRS really encourages and appreciates "Double Award" cars. There are not very many of them.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Thanks that is a very helpful explanation. But it still seems a bit odd that you have no chance of getting a National Top Flight Award on a Bowtie car unless you get 97 and a PV, so I guess a 96 at a regional is just not something they want to recognize and mess with at a National.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Thanks that is a very helpful explanation. But it still seems a bit odd that you have no chance of getting a National Top Flight Award on a Bowtie car unless you get 97 and a PV, so I guess a 96 at a regional is just not something they want to recognize and mess with at a National.

No, you just have to attend two National meets.

My 1972 received its Regional Top Flight in 2003 followed by a National Top Flight in Hershey in 2003, then its Bowtie in Windsor in 2004. I don't think it will quite make the 97% required for Duntov, but it has all 3 levels of Top Flight plus the 5 Star Bowtie.

FYI, I drove it to its Regional Award and Bowtie Award.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Oh, OK, now I see how you could also get a National Top Flight too with a Bowtie car, thanks!

[Kevin G.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

I believe the combined Flight/Bowtie Judging is also to help eliminate the chances of damaging the originality of the Bowtie car. If judged separately the likelihood of original parts being "improved/changed " for a higher Flight number is very high!

[Reba W.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

If the two awards are achieved at separate conventions, the Duntov must come first. As Kevin says that prevents the destruction of originality in order to achieve the Duntov.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Yes, that all makes perfect sense.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

If the two awards are achieved at separate conventions, the Duntov must come first. As Kevin says that prevents the destruction of originality in order to achieve the Duntov.

Or you need the approval of the Team Leader. That is the other way to do it to verify that the owner doesn't "de-Bowtie" the car.

[Terry M.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

Or you need the approval of the Team Leader. That is the other way to do it to verify that the owner doesn't "de-Bowtie" the car.

One should also understand that if the Bowtie is completed before the Duntov attempt, the Bowtie Award is at risk during Duntov judging if it is determined the originality of the car has been altered since it was Bowtie judged. That is another reason why the preferred method is to attempt both awards at the same convention = less stress on everyone involved.

[Dave S.]

Re: Bowtie and Flight judging

One should also understand that if the Bowtie is completed before the Duntov attempt, the Bowtie Award is at risk during Duntov judging if it is determined the originality of the car has been altered since it was Bowtie judged. That is another reason why the preferred method is to attempt both awards at the same convention = less stress on everyone involved.

I have a 71 car that was Bowtied in 2004. It had two subsequent displays toward its 5th star prior to 2004. I purchased it in 2008 and decided to attempt a Duntov. I did the normal Duntov prerequisites (97+ at. Regional and PV) and completed the two additional Bowtie displays. The 5th star and Duntov were awarded at the 2010 Charlotte National. In this case the Bowtie was first but the 5th star was hanging in the balance so de-Bowtie possibility was eliminated. The other point is the Bow tie award goes with the car (the only award like that) and it is possible for two or more owners to accomplish the four 5th star prerequisites.