63 FI Surging

[Lawrence S.]

Ok....I have not been a member for a while but getting my car back on the road after sitting for the past three years so here I am renewing my membership to get back out here. I am the owner of a 1963 FI and found that the HP pump had locked up so I pulled the FI system off. I found that the gears in the HP pump had frozen up, likely from gas gunk. Anyway, I took the HP apart after marking the gears and housing to ensure it I could put it back together in the same manner as I took it apart; cleaned it all up and tested the fuel flow while on the bench and all is well with fuel flow. In addition, while I had it off I replaced all the seals also and after hooking it back up, it fired right up.

Now here's where the fun begins....I had a hard time getting it to idle...I was getting a surge where the RPMs would run up to 2600 for a moment and then back off to around 600 and right before the engine would cut off, the engine would surge back up to around 2600 and the process would start all over again. I was able to get it to idle around 800 RPM after adjusting the Idle Speed and Idle Fuel screws and thought all was well.

Yesterday I went out to give it a test run, cranked it up, and it started the surging all over again and this time I could not get it to adjust out so I have a problem. Not sure if its a vacuum leak or what...but any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

...Larry...

[Paul Y.]

Re: 63 FI Surging

Larry, the first thing I would do is check you ignition. Are the points good? How about the dwell? Also check for spark leakage in a dark garage or dark night see it there is a light show under the good. That done I would see how much vacuum that you have. Is it within spects? You mentioned that you replaced the seals. Did you check the diaphragms for any pin holes? How about the injectors? Did you disassemble them and clean them? Is the motor burning rich? Check the cranking signal valve for proper function. If the high pressure pump was frozen did you check all of the other components for cleanliness? Well there you have a start in what to look for. I have a 63 FI and I have put over a 100K miles on it with very little trouble. Mine likes pure gas a bunch better that the alcohol contaminated stuff. Go to pure gas.org for a station near you.

[John D.]

Re: 63 FI Surging

Larry, Paul gave so very good answers. Stands to reason that if the hi-pressure pump was locked up because of old fuel then one can expect other issues in the fuel injection unit.
You have to be very careful because if the anti-siphon valve sticks in the fuel bowl and the check valve in the spider is sticking then you could have hydraulic lockup. Loose the engine or if lucky just a bent connecting rod or two. One of my friends just bent 4 connecting rods in his '62.
You said that one time you idle was only 600 and the other time it was 800 RPM.
Hopefully you cleaned out your gas tank and put fresh fuel in. Also a new fuel filter.
When you said you put new seals in are you referring to O'rings? Is the spill valve screen clean?
As Paul mentioned you could have cranking signal problems also. Do a search here on cranking signal valves.

There no short cuts with these fuel injections. The ethanol is killing them. Sounds like you are ready for a possible rebuild. But first see if the CSV is good or not. Do you have a known good spare? You should have one in the glove box.
John

[Lawrence S.]

Re: 63 FI Surging

John and Paul...thank you for the feedback and areas to focus on. I have a spare CSV and replaced that this morning with no change. Started the engine and its running up to 3000 RPMs and then idling back to 600 before it surges again. Not giving it any gas while its going through this process.....

As to what I have done over the past weeks...

* Fresh fuel is in the tank
* Spill Plunger - put in new spill plunger tumb tack; o ring seals; filter screen and spring.
* New Plenum intake manafold gaskets
* New Enrichment Diaphragm
* New Fuel Injection Fuel Meter Needle (rubber tip type) & Seat
* New Main Control Diaphragm
* New fuel filter...

John...I purchased a rebuild kit back in 1998 from you and we spoke on the phone a few times as I was going through the unit back then and no issues until now and that is because I let it sit up for three years. So I recently purchased a rebuild kit online and the items may not be up to specs. My wife and I are retired now and spend the winters south on the boat and just not enough time to enjoy Red....but really want to get it back up to where she was before I let her just sit...

I am going to pull the unit again and go through it and see if any of the areas noted above are issues....may have to send it out to a professional to rebuild but always like to do things myself just so I can fix it. Anyway...will let you know of any items that may be of issues. Thank you both again.

...Larry...

[John D.]

Re: 63 FI Surging

Hi Larry, Adjust the fast idle cam screw to keep the FI from screaming up to 3000 on start up. Not good.
The screw is hard to adjust. The fast idle cam is on the front side of the air meter (throttle body in todays lingo)
Screw head is 1/4". Use a 1/4" socket. Turn the screw counterclockwise so the start up RPM is around 1800-2200..
Make sure you choke shaft is not sticking. Make sure the choke is working.
Adjust the regular idle screw by the seat of your pants for a start. It's easy to do. Back side of the air meter. Screw head staring at you. Turn it in. Clockwise to raise the idle. Since you are way down to 600 just give the screw about two turns.

Now go over to the fuel meter. Remove the sheet metal fuel meter shield. Gently tighten up the two fillister screws and put the shield on the workbench.
Two set screws. Look in the 63 shop manual. The screw closest to the headlights is the economy stop. You are surging. You may need more gas at idle. Turn the set screw in-to right-toward the firewall (all of those). Turn it in about one full turn. This is just guessing.
Use a 3/32 allen wrench for the set screw. Tighten up the lock nut. See if this helps. John
Also the idle fuel screw on the air meter can be adjusted.

[Lawrence S.]

Re: 63 FI Surging

John...thank you for the information and the car runs fine now...yea! It was great talking to you last week and providing me a contact to rebuild the leaking HP pump. I also found the receipt from where you rebuilt it back on May 11, 1998...where has the time gone...anyway, thank you and Paul again and hope the opportunity presents itself to say hello up in Carlisle. ..Larry...