Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

[Michael B.]

There seems to be some debate about whether or not the rear suspension/axle components (not including the leaf spring assembly) were black or unpainted from St. Louis throughout the 1963 model year.

Edition 5 of the J.G. states the axle housing and halfshafts are to be painted or coated black. Where as edition 6 states these are to be uncoated or natural.

Which is correct?

Thanks,
Mike

[Bob J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Edition 5 states the truth.

[Jeff M.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

For what it is worth to you, my 63 SWC has what is left of blackout in the rear suspension area including the halfshafts. Although the car still Top Flighted, points were deducted and I was told it was incorrect and not original at Charlotte. I personally believe it is original and correct from other originals I have seen, so I won't change mine in this case. it is an unrestored Gold Survivor and Regional Top Flight Car. Opinions will vary on this topic as others. Jeff

[Tracy C.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

I've looked under every 63/4 Bowtie candidate at every Regional and National event I've attended as well as a 5 star Bowtie 64 at the 2013 judging retreat. At least five or six examples in total and EVERY single one of them had evidence of chassis blackout on the front and rear suspension. For the life of me I can't understand why our 63 and 64 Corvettes are being punished with point deductions for being correctly restored with chassis blackout.

tc

[Mike M.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

I have always painted front and rear 63 suspensions. Mike

[Bob J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

I've looked under every 63/4 Bowtie candidate at every Regional and National event I've attended as well as a 5 star Bowtie 64 at the 2013 judging retreat. At least five or six examples in total and EVERY single one of them had evidence of chassis blackout on the front and rear suspension.


For the life of me I can't understand why our 63 and 64 Corvettes are being punished with point deductions for being correctly restored with chassis blackout.

tc

I can answer that one TC.
63-64 team leader for the past 20+ years refuses to accept facts.
Amazing to me he can do a 180 and flip sides from one edition to the next..........YET claims he needs PROOF before any changes.
What changed from #5 to #6? Maybe a letter with a SASE would get an answer, just like we use to do in the 70s.
Bob J

[John H.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

One has to wonder how much longer '63-'64 owners will be confronted with this continuing judging charade? We KNOW the cars had rear suspension components painted chassis black in the basement subassembly, but the JG has flip-flopped (again) on this issue, with no stated reason "why". This is really a professional embarrassment (or should be), and is not limited to the rear suspension issue. Glad I have a '67.

[John D.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Mike Hanson showed us boo coo original chassis pics over the years on this subject.
To repeat for the 100th time. It's been said a child could do the finish' on a '63. When in doubt make the part black.
My '63, the LWC has a lot of bare chassis parts. It is not correct at all.

[Bob J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

One has to wonder how much longer '63-'64 owners will be confronted with this continuing judging charade? We KNOW the cars had rear suspension components painted chassis black in the basement subassembly, but the JG has flip-flopped (again) on this issue, with no stated reason "why". This is really a professional embarrassment (or should be), and is not limited to the rear suspension issue. Glad I have a '67.

Thanks, John.

[Edward J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Guys, Bashing the 63/64 team leader will not get anything done. I Believe that your statements maybe a valid one, but the the discussion has been talked about many times over the years and, Maybe the next JM will bring about the right changes,as for know I believe the current judges will flip flop either way, At least the last regional my 63 was at and my Friends 63 both were judged either way as my car was done to the new manual ,and his was to the old manual.There are is a lot of talked from members here that have been around much longer than me. Why not take part in the next manual? and set them straight. I know that proof is in the pudding, bring it and show. the current guys that took part in the manual are like us volunteers. getting it right does mean a lot to those restoring there cars. Just my two cents.

[Bob J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Guys, Bashing the 63/64 team leader will not get anything done. I Believe that your statements maybe a valid one, but the the discussion has been talked about many times over the years and, Maybe the next JM will bring about the right changes,as for know I believe the current judges will flip flop either way, At least the last regional my 63 was at and my Friends 63 both were judged either way as my car was done to the new manual ,and his was to the old manual.There are a lot of talked from members here that have been around much longer than me. Why not take part in the next manual? and set them straight. I know that proof is in the pudding, bring it and show. the current guys that took part in the manual are like us volunteers. getting it right does mean a lot to those restoring there cars. Just my two cents.

I don't think its bashing a team leader at all.
It is what it is, and the team leader caused these issues.
Have you worked with this team leader trying to correct incorrect items in the 63-64 JG?
I have, so did Michael Hanson and many more people who tried to fix the jg.
You will never see a mention of that except for a post here by Bob Young apologizing for our names never being included.
I don't think it is fair for the jg to say in edition 5 that black rear suspension is acceptable, then come out with edition 6 and say NO black paint on rear suspension.
After 20 years in that position it is time for a change and that is the reason why the club is losing members like Michael Hanson who TRIED to correct things through the years but got pushed back repeatedly by the team leader.

That is my 2 cents.

[Edward J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Bob, I have and likely will never be around as long as you and other members on the board and will thank each and every one of you for your thoughts But--- I think the best way to go about any changes now would be Dave Brigham, as for the next JM for 63/64 manual could be a few years away. I see that the new judging errata ,maybe able to make something happen before then?? others for now are doing it both ways. And from owners perspective its a fair deal. I will only say some because I really have not meet all the 63/64 chassis guys.

[Bob J.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Bob, I have and likely will never be around as long as you and other members on the board and will thank each and every one of you for your thoughts But--- I think the best way to go about any changes now would be Dave Brigham, as for the next JM for 63/64 manual could be a few years away. I see that the new judging errata ,maybe able to make something happen before then?? others for now are doing it both ways. And from owners perspective its a fair deal. I will only say some because I really have not meet all the 63/64 chassis guys.

Ed, I'm confused by your last few sentences.
Are you saying the current system is fair because SOME judges are do not deduct while others do deduct?
If your answer is yes, please explain how that would be fair to the owner who did it by the 5th (painted) and who now gets deducts by SOME judge who does not judge it both ways.
I'd also like to know how fair it is to make an owner remove rear suspension paint to comply with the 6 edition after he added it to comply with the 5th edition? That seems like double work to me.
Also, many people KNOW and have PROOF that paint was on rear suspension parts but the change happened due to the team leader not wanting to believe them. Re-read the comment that Tracy made observing unmolested cars and Mike M's commnent that he paints his rear suspension on 63s.
This team leader, who has been in this position for 20+ years, is the one who had final say on that change (flip-flop) in the latest jg.

Until a new judging guide for 63-64 edition comes out, every car that gets restored using the latest edition will be wrong . Simple as that !
Bob J

[Jeff M.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

I agree that it is NOT fair to the owners and not only on restored cars. In my case the 63 I had a Charlotte was a Bowtie Sign Off Car. I was told that not only was it incorrect but that it would greatly effect the Bowtie/Star in the Chassis section because even though the parts were correct and original to the car, All of those pieces in the rear suspension not only had what was left of blackout on them which I was told was not correct, but they could have been taken off and painted and then reinstalled which kills it for the Star in that area. Ill also add that even with the chassis judges and team leader saying that it was still so close in that section that they waited and reviewed it the next morning, it still did not get a star. I can only wonder that if the car would have got the benefit of the doubt in regards to the rear suspension blackout being original, would the outcome have been different. With this being said, overall I had a great experience in Charlotte and am thrilled with my Top Flight. Also, Mike M did judge my car in Charlotte, and I thought he was right on in his section, but it was in the Mechanical Section and the Chassis judges I had did not share his and my opinion on the rear suspension blackout.

Also, we all know that 63's have so many things that changed throughout the year so I am not saying that my car 100% for sure was this way as I didn't buy it new. The thing is, when you look at the whole area in general and so many pieces are consistent with each other in the way the finish or what is left of it looks, and the pieces are original and correct, in an area that has proof that some original cars were that way, how can you not get the benefit of the doubt in that case.

[Joe R.]

Re: Chassis black on '63 rear axle and components

Gentlemen,

I have owned and restored (and screwed up) as many 63-64 Corvettes as anyone that belongs to the NCRS. I also received Top Flights and one Duntov for those Corvettes. A few little mistakes in the judging manual or from the judges won't keep you from getting Top Flight!
Yes, there are mistakes and I agree they should be taken care of but it is impossible to have a perfect manual or judge! We shall keep trying to update the manuals (all of them) as we can for as long as we can!
And no I have never been asked to help with the 63-64 judging manual and that is OK! I have submitted suggestions from time to time but no judges have been slain for what I have said or suggested! (A bit of humor Don)!
Let's get back to the idea of suggesting and forwarding those suggestions to the 63-64 Team Leader and the National Team Leader.

JR