Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

[Clarence B.]

I am a new member and have attended car shows (non NCRS shows) and have noticed that there are large numbers of vintage Corvettes that have been restored in a very detailed and beautiful manner. The engine bays and chassis are just beautiful to behold. They are stock down to the smallest detail. Just stunning! Original appearing oil filters and batteries-no detail nor expense overlooked. I enjoy looking at them in this state-reminds me of how they looked when new back in the 1950s and 60s.

But most will have a new paint job in the original color-but will be two stage paint-base and clear. I can't get over the fact that much money was spent for originality--but then the Corvette is painted in two stage paint. Doesn't this destroy the originality?

Does this two stage paint on vintage restored Corvettes and other vintage cars seem wrong to anyone else? The two stage paint is beautiful to look at-but seems to me to be a modern type of paint-that shouldn't be on a vintage restored vehicle.

What are your feelings about this new type of paint in a vintage Corvette? I grew up in St Louis in the 1950s and 1960s and remember these Corvettes running around when they were new--and none had wet looking paint back in those days.

And how do the NCRS judges handle applied two stage paint on Corvettes that originally had single stage paint?

[Tracy C.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Clarence,

There are well defined criteria regarding our judging rules in the Judging reference manual. Paint is one of those things that owners choose themselves. Some want a perfect paint job and are entitled to it if they want. They decide to accept the deductions such a paint job will receive. If the car is otherwise restored correctly, they can still top flight. Their Blue ribbons are just as Blue as the owners with original looking paint, so they don't care.

We do not mandate the choices a car owner makes with their restorations. We judge using our criteria and the chips fall where they may.

tc

[Greg H.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Surely you will find lots of opinions, but for me, I am going for the best most durable finish I can get. I found it would cost the same to have my car painted semi-gloss black vs. gloss black, and I am planning to enjoy my car every day, and want it to look its best. Only an NCRS judge would appreciate the dulled finish it originally came with.

[Mike T.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Clarence - I agree with Greg, if I had to choose, I'd also go for the more durable finish. Also, something you might have overlooked, some states don't allow the type of paint that our early Corvettes were original coated with. When we had some repairs to my Black 65 Coupe maybe 6 years ago in California, which I originally painted in Black Lacquer back in the late 80's, I still happened to have a quart of Dupont 99S Black Diamond Lacquer and we were able to use it due to just a spotting in situation, not an overall paint job.

[Ed S.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

I don't want to start a war here but just for the sake of conversation, does anyone know what type of paints are applied to classic cars that appear at Concours events, like Pebble Beach? You often see multimillion dollar Bugattis and other marques..... and they look awesome. Are they restored to "original" condition or are they "over restored"? I think the latter. Its not only the paint but their chrome and other surfaces as well - every square inch of material is flawless. I guess it boils down to personal preference and the quality of the results.

[Clarence B.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Tracy:

I appreciate a perfect and long lasting two stage paint job. What would be the range of NCRS judging deductions that a two stage paint job would receive?

I am impressed at the detail of NCRS judging and I realize that these judges are basically preserving these fine Corvettes for future generations in their original pristine (though imperfect) factory condition. I like the fact that the judging addresses over restoration. It is a personal matter-but the modern paint is distracting to me . I can't remember what a new factory GM uneven lacquer paint job looks like-have only seen recently-such original paint on weathered survivors it seems.

I can remember the days when polishing/waxing involved getting lots of car color on the buffing cloth.

I kind of miss the old Corvettes of old-when they were new or just several years old-with their slightly wavy fiberglass and their factory lacquer paint with the primer showing though in spots. This was part of their appeal in my mind.

[Clarence B.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Mike:

Lacquer can't be sourced or used by some body shops because of some state environmental concerns? I didn't realize that !

[Terry M.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Tracy:

I appreciate a perfect and long lasting two stage paint job. What would be the range of NCRS judging deductions that a two stage paint job would receive?

I am impressed at the detail of NCRS judging and I realize that these judges are basically preserving these fine Corvettes for future generations in their original pristine (though imperfect) factory condition. I like the fact that the judging addresses over restoration. It is a personal matter-but the modern paint is distracting to me . I can't remember what a new factory GM uneven lacquer paint job looks like-have only seen recently-such original paint on weathered survivors it seems.

I can remember the days when waxing involved getting lots of car color on the buffing cloth.

NCRS does not decide what type of paint is used on the car. Our standard is "as it left the factory," and the judges assess how close the paint appears to that theoretical standard. It does not matter to the judges what material the owner choses to use or how it is applied. The results are what we base our evaluation on.

I would encourage you to get a copy of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual from the NCRS office in Cincinnati. I would also encourage you to attend some Judging Schools. If there is a Chapter near you, the most active chapters have judging schools before their car show season begins -- except those in the south which have a perpetual car show season. Any Regional will have several judging schools. It would help your understanding of what we do to get a little background on the NCRS Judging System by attending some judging schools.

[Clarence B.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Ed:

I agree with you. They are overrestored. IMHO-these Concours events and some of the vehicles involved-- are misrepresenting vehicle history-and many of us too young to have known these vehicles were never realize what they looked like when new. Original Imperfections are important and historical too to the observer.

This over restoration is becoming common and is the reason that there are owners of some barn find vehicles that are not touching them at all-and letting people see a totally unrestored vehicle.But this seems to be going to the other extreme. I appreciate a vintage vehicle that looks totally like it did when new-down to the smallest detail and imperfection. I want to feel that I am back in 1959 or 1953 and seeing this vintage vehicle in it's factory new state.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Tracy:

I appreciate a perfect and long lasting two stage paint job. What would be the range of NCRS judging deductions that a two stage paint job would receive?

I am impressed at the detail of NCRS judging and I realize that these judges are basically preserving these fine Corvettes for future generations in their original pristine (though imperfect) factory condition. I like the fact that the judging addresses over restoration. It is a personal matter-but the modern paint is distracting to me . I can't remember what a new factory GM uneven lacquer paint job looks like-have only seen recently-such original paint on weathered survivors it seems.

I can remember the days when waxing involved getting lots of car color on the buffing cloth.

I kind of miss the old Corvettes of old-when they were new or just several years old-with their slightly wavy fiberglass and their factory lacquer paint with the primer showing though in spots. This was part of their appeal in my mind.

I share your sentiment regarding lacquer appearance. I shot my car with lacquer last summer just because I wanted that old fashion look. I just hope that by the time I get it judged there will still be exterior judges who know what is correct.

Full deduct on paint is 85 points (45 originality and 40 condition) If a car shows up with full gloss in areas that were not buffed at the factory (think drip rails, door jams, sides of headlight buckets, etc), expect this kind of a deduct. If these areas show a lesser degree of gloss, the owner can get back 62 of those deducted points.

Two stage paint is not a dis-qualifier alone if it is made to "appear" as lacquer. This is easier said than done, but it is possible to get zero deducts with a base/clear coat paint job.

tc

[Clarence B.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Terry:

I have been reading a NCRS JRM for 75 thru 77 MY. And the standard of "as it left the factory" was confusing to me in regards to all of the vintage Corvettes with two stage paint I have been seeing. You and the others have explained it to me though. I am trying to learn the rules regarding judging. And a judging school seems like a good idea. I would find it very interesting. I am impressed at the degree and comprehensiveness of the judging. I am considering attending the Denver NCRS National Convention in July. But I don't want to seem uninformed and naive to all of you guys that have such understanding of all of this.So I am trying to learn as much as possible.

Thanks to all that responded to my questions.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Terry:

I have been reading a NCRS JRM for 75 thru 77 MY. And the standard of "as it left the factory" was confusing to me in regards to all of the vintage Corvettes with two stage paint I have been seeing. You and the others have explained it to me though. I am trying to learn the rules regarding judging. And a judging school seems like a good idea. I would find it very interesting. I am impressed at the degree and comprehensiveness of the judging. I am considering attending the Denver NCRS National Convention in July. But I don't want to seem uninformed and naive to all of you guys that have such understanding of all of this.So I am trying to learn as much as possible.

Thanks to all that responded to my questions.

The Judging Guide for any given year tells you what we judge on those cars. The Judging Reference Manual tells you how we judge it across the board on all cars. I echo Terry's suggestion that you get a copy from our book store. It's the best 25 bucks you can spend to learn the judging process.

Link to the store... https://www.ncrs.org/shop/index.php?...roducts_id=221

[Clarence B.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

I share your sentiment regarding lacquer appearance. I shot my car with lacquer last summer just because I wanted that old fashion look. I just hope that by the time I get it judged there will still be exterior judges who know what is correct.

Full deduct on paint is 85 points (45 originality and 40 condition) If a car shows up with full gloss in areas that were not buffed at the factory (think drip rails, door jams, sides of headlight buckets, etc), expect this kind of a deduct. If these areas show a lesser degree of gloss, the owner can get back 62 of those deducted points.

Two stage paint is not a dis-qualifier alone if it is made to "appear" as lacquer. This is easier said than done, but it is possible to get zero deducts with a base/clear coat paint job.

tc

Many must be giving up 45 points to have the wet look two stage paint on the exterior! . How can exterior two stage paint appear to be factory lacquer? Lessen the amount of clear coat sheen somehow? Doesn't all clear coat have a wet ,modern look, to it?

I understand that over the hood/engine bay components should have various amounts of gloss to it. And it is distressing to see a clean stock engine bay with all glossy black components and firewall and underneath of the hood ect.

[Mike E.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

Since you're taking about the 75 to 77 MY IMHO those are probably the pinnacle of poor factory paint. Visible bonding seams, excessive wavy panels, light coverage and runs, orange peel, the bumper covers were off a shade from the rest of the body because of the flexible additive used in the old lacquer paint, just plain horrible quality. Add to this in those days Chevrolet could sell twice as many Corvette than they could make. I know first hand, I bought a new 1976 Red Corvette and had the dealer repaint most of the car because the paint was so bad.

Very few folks will probably go to the trouble to duplicate such bad paint especially for those years. As Tracy said it totally up to the owner though if you want to. The sad part is if you went to trouble to recreate the paint from the latter 70's very few folks would appreciate it, with the exception of some NCRS paint judges.

I agree with you its pretty easy to pick out BC/CC paint when your used to what lacquer paint looks like.

Mike

[Frank D.]

Re: Vintage fully restored Corvettes with new two stage paint? Why?

If you actually drive your car, around Florida, with our "love bugs"; you'd darn sure better have clear coat.
Their little juicy bodies turn acidic about 24 hours after smashing into your car and wreak havoc on paint jobs...