New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

[Ron N.]

My next flight judging will be at the San Antonio National in 2017. My objective is Top Flight with a raw score of at least 97%. To prepare I have read through the JG several times and have identify some area that I need clarification. Hopefully some experts / judges can provide clarification and how these will be judged.



INTERIOR
P.31 - 67 Owners Guid; First Edition to
My 67 assembly date is 4/18/67. I have the original OG that came with the car. It is a1st Edition.
P.43 - Wheel Wench: The swivel unit with a 3/4 hex socket is riveted (rivet has concentric circles), has an on the side.



MECHANICAL
P.121 Thermostat Housing - Part No. 3877660 was cast into the mounting flange, or, on the outlet.
My 67 thermostat housing has the part #3877660 on the outlet.
P.113 - HOSES (Air Cleaner / Crankcase), The Vent Hose printed in white or yellow ink.
My 67 has the original vent hoes that came with the car it has neither ribs or GM printed on it.


The terms used above are ambiguous, subject to interpretation and can cause issues during judging. That is the reason for this post.


starters screws were slotted whilehave phillips screws. The exact date of the changeover is uncertain and either style may be seen.The last sentence provides clarification that I and maybe others appreciate.







Any help you can provide will be appreciated.


Ron

[Keith B.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

T-stat housing with numbers on flange is 66-67. Numbers on neck is 68 on up

[Don H.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

Ron
in my opinion, for you to best understand how terms such as mid April (or mid any month during production where changes have been seen to occur), typically and infrequently are interpreted by any given judge at any given meet, I strongly encourage you to get involved in judging between now and July 2017 by OJ'g at Chapter meets and Regionals if you can. The TIM&JG are guides to assist judges in assessing the appearance of typical factory production practices. The new 67 TIM&JG is very comprehensive and digs deep into the weeds of many details, but is not represented as being exactly precise in each and every detail for every single car. There are variations. Depending on particular judges' knowledge and time available to conduct each judging aspect at a given meet, certain details will be called non-typical if not conforming to the JG, and others will be ignored or missed. To best see how the judges do the very best they can to fairly assess cars and give each of them the highest possible score, you should do some OJ'ing on 67s before San Antonio. Good luck

as a F/U to Ara's note below, remember that flight judging is not the same as Bowtie judging. The flight judges are not trying to gauge what parts are original to your car. They are evaluating all aspects of your car for Typical Factory Production appearance or deviation from what is best known to be TFP. If [originality] deductions are taken for parts you know to be original, you are encouraged to make your case to the judges then and there and see what happens. But it is not life and death. Your car will surely score very high given your track record so far, likely over 97% and the tiny details you mention here will not prevent that even if 1-2 point originality deducts are taken on some of them.

[Ara G.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

Ron,
Don gives good advice. Also, on your owner's guide I think you will NOT have any problem or issue. Your car, IMO, falls within the spread allowable under the JM. On your jack handle, I do NOT think you will have any problem. Missing the "O" will not, IMO, be an issue for you as we typically see the "O", but it's not an all or nothing proposition like having a 67 BB with an AO Smith body...lol...
Regarding the thermostat housing, we generally expect to see the 660 on the flange. If you can attest to the fact that you are the original owner and have never removed/replaced the item, then I certainly think any experienced judge will listen to your plight. What he/she does is up to them on any given day at any given judging event.
Regarding the starter screw, for a LONG time we were guided by only slotted screws being "typical". I think having either a Phillips OR a slotted will be permissible under the JM, again IMO. I have an extremely original 67 350hp L79 and it has a slotted screw on the starter with a December engine assembly. Again, the fact that you are the original owner will carry some weight with any dispute you may have on a call. Remember, judge's are volunteers and are at the meet on their own nickel. Diplomatically disputing an issue is the only way to go. I know you will. I have seen a couple of owners go "pinko" at some calls and it's just not good for anyone. Again, I know that's not you....I just mention it for general reference.
Best regards,
ARA

[John D.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

My wheel wench (pg 43) is often busy shopping or doing other things and I have to drive my 67 alone. She doesn't seem to mind....lol

[Joe R.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

Ron,

It's wonderful that an original owner of a 67 steps forward and allows us to see that 1967 Corvette.
Don't change anything that is original to your 67!
The 67 TL is a fair man with a depth of knowledge unlike others. More than likely he will change the judging guide according to your 1967.
Everybody learns in this hobby and the only way judging manuals can be accurate is people like you step forward!!!!

JR

[Gary S.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

For what it is worth, I have about 15 pictures of the 660 water neck on 67's. Many are Bowtie cars. About half have the 660 number on the top of the housing including the well known 3700 mile car. Maybe my picture taking was coincidence.

[Gary B.]

Re: New 67 5th Edition Judging Guide - Need Clarification

Ron,

Regarding four of the specific points you describe:

1) P.31 - 67 Owners Guid; First Edition to
My 67 assembly date is 4/18/67. I have the original OG that came with the car. It is a1st Edition.

2) P.43 - Wheel Wench: The swivel unit with a 3/4 hex socket is riveted (rivet has concentric circles), has an 3) P.121 Thermostat Housing - Part No. 3877660 was cast into the mounting flange, or, on the outlet.
My 67 thermostat housing has the part #3877660 on the outlet.

4) P.113 - HOSES (Air Cleaner / Crankcase), The Vent Hose printed in white or yellow ink.
My 67 has the original vent hoes that came with the car it has neither ribs or GM printed on it.

I don't see why any of the specifics for those four items based on the observations for your car would affect the wording in the JG. To me, typically means most of the time, but not always. Infrequently means not very often, but sometimes. And mid-April is intentionally vague since it's unlikely the cutoff date can be pinned down to one exact day. I think the wording in the JG reflects the observations of lots of cars and the wording describes what was found based on those cars with as much specificity as is possible given the data.

I think the '67 team leader would love to know about your car, since you know so much of its history being the original owner. But adding one more data point to the information already contained in the JG is not, in my opinion, going to result in any wording change in the JG for the 4 items described above. And I can't see a reasonable judge making a deduct for any of those four items on your car given the current language in the JG. If a judge does take a deduct, I think you have grounds to discuss the deduction with the assigned team leader and argue your view based on the language in the JG. I predict you would win that argument and gain back those lost points.

Gary