'63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

[Jeff H.]

Hello,
Apparently no one out there is reproducing the correct, textured & painted cardboard / fiberglass headliners used on early ('63-'64) midyears. Has anyone tried repairing theirs? Mine has a small puncture, about an inch long, in one location. Otherwise, it's in decent shape. I've considered filling the puncture with some type of flexible filler material, trying to replicate the "texture" of the surrounding surface, and repainting the whole headliner. Do any of you folks have experience doing this? What materials did you use, and how did you reproduce the surface texture? Pehaps I would be better off leaving it alone and taking the judging "hit". How many points deduction would this flaw be potentially costing me?
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Jeff Hanson
'64 roadster - Dec., '63 build date

[Edward J.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

Jeff, I would try some sort of repair to help conceal it and re-dye after. there are no correct material liners, There was just a recent post from Harry Sadlock and he explained this topic.

[Richard M.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

Jeff, I've used the vinyl repair kits. They come with different "grain papers" to help match the grains, several colors of vinyl paste, and a mini iron.

You mix a small batch of paste, spatula it in the crack/tear(not to much, just to fill the void), lay the grain paper over it, and walk the iron across the back of the grain paper to cure the vinyl.

Like this.....
81781.jpg

http://www.pricefalls.com/product/Permatex-81781-Ultra-Series-Vinyl-and-Leather-Repair-Kit/20405284?source=GoogleShopping&medium=cpc&term=PLA-SC&content=61865531738product_type_l1&campaign=TexasValue&adpos=1o6&creative=59282505151&device=c&matchtype=&network=g

Rich
p.s.
DIRECTIONS: Always make a practice repair on vinyl sample (in kit) before making an actual repair! Note: you will need an extension cord to connect electric heat tool to electrical outlet. Read all 7 steps of instructions before using the repair kit. TO REPAIR VINYL OR LEATHER UPHOLSTERY: 1. PREPARE THE DAMAGED AREA. Clean the area with a strong household cleaner. Make sure area is dry before starting the repair work. Trim off frayed or excess threads with a razor blade or knife. If burn damaged, remove charred material with razor or knife. 2. INSERT CLOTH BACKING FABRIC. NOTE: Very small (less than 1/4 inch) cuts, burns or holes do not require a cloth backing fabric. Cut the fabric slightly larger than the damage. Use the spatula to insert it into and under the damage to provide support for the repair. 3. SELECT GRAIN PAPER. Enclosed are three (3) grain patterns: fine, coarse and medium. Select the grain pattern paper closest to that of your damaged vinyl. Draw an outline of the damaged area on the top side of the grain paper. This will allow you to position the heat transfer tool accurately. 4. FILL IN DAMAGE. Use the Clear Vinyl Adhesive and Filler and spatula to fill in damaged area to surface level. Allow 4 hours to dry. The adhesive will shrink slightly when dry, leaving a void which is then filled in with colored repair compound. 5. MATCHING THE COLOR. One of the seven (7) color repair containers may be close enough to the color of the damaged vinyl to make the repair. If so, use it directly from the container. If not, while the Clear Vinyl Adhesive and Filler is drying, mix and match the color of your vinyl using the color-matching chart on the back of this card as a guide. Mix the colors in small amounts with the spatula until you get the correct shade. Check the color match by rubbing a small amount of the color onto the undamaged vinyl, and then remove it with a rag. 6. APPLYING THE COLOR REPAIR COMPOUND. Prior to applying the color compound, determine if your repair will be for a “soft” area, like a seat, or for a “hard” area, like an interior door panel. If the repair is for a “hard” area, add approximately 20% of the included hardener material to the color matching compound. Stir this in thoroughly and apply as per the following instructions. If the repair is for a “soft” area, do not use the included hardener. Use the spatula to evenly and neatly apply the repair compound into the damaged area. Spread a thin layer onto the undamaged vinyl and feather the edges to make the surface smooth and even. Correct application of the repair compound is necessary to produce an excellent repair job. Wipe up any excess from around the hole or damage. DO NOT OVERFILL THE DAMAGED AREA. Filling the surface evenly is very important, and care should be taken to do it properly. Use less repair compound, not more. It is easy to add more later if necessary. Tape the grain paper over the uncured color compound making sure the outline is directly over the damaged area. 7. HEAT CURING THE REPAIR. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP OF THE REPAIR PROCESS. Plug in heat transfer tool and allow 4 minutes to warm up. This is a constant heat source. NEVER LET THIS TOOL DIRECTLY TOUCH THE VINYL! After the electric tool is heated, place the hot metal tip on the grain paper over the drawn outline of the damage. Rotate the heat tool on the grain paper outline in a circular motion for 35-45 seconds. Care must be taken not to OVERHEAT the grain paper. Heat must be applied to each and every section where the grain paper covers the repair compound. (This includes the area surrounding the outlined area.) Remove the electric tool but not the grain paper. REMOVE THE PAPER ONLY AFTER FULLY COOLED (1 to 2 minutes). If the area repaired is sticky or tacky after cooling, simply repeat step 7 above. If there are any defects or pin holes in the repair, simply fill in more colored repair compound and repeat Step 7. www.permatex.com www.permatexrepair.com - See more at: http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p....G0gyx2LW.dpuf

[Frank D.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

I never tired a vinyl repair kit. The '63 headliner is a sort of pressed paper with a VERY unique pattern. The Al Knoch repro is closer than you might think...you would almost have to remove their headliner from the car and invert it in the sun to see the difference in pattern. That is what is in my split window. It is hard 'pressed board' and with a very close to original grainy pebble texture.. Is it perfection ? Well no, but darn close. Its not really the texture its how the original texture is patterned. A close look in sunlight shows an original headliner has almost sine-wave like rows of texture applied across the piece. Its not so random as is the Al Knoch repro. HOWEVER, you have to be some distance from the headliner to note the difference and you really aren't when sitting in the car. I've tried to take side-by-side pics of the AK repro vs the original but the patterning difference is so subtle it doesn't begin to show in a photo.

I'm quite happy with the AK repro.

However, the Corvette America repro is a horrible bit of kit; not even close and adhesive failure starts the day you install it. Ill fitting and fragile.

There are several techniques to restoring original headliners these I've picked up. For those papery thin edges that are delaminating or soft spots in the top...carefully pour a small amount of super glue over the area on the BACK of the headliner. It will smoke a bit and turn rock hard and will be undetectable when installed. For holes depending on their size you may have to put in some filler; if its small enough there are some textured paints or paints to which you can add the correct size sand to that approximate the texture - I've done that too. Then just touch that area up with closely matching paint if the stuff you bought isn't close enough. If the hole is indeed a void you can stuff some paper (paper towel) in it to just below the level of the surrounding area and hit that with some super glue (I've made undetectable repairs in dash pads doing this). Then do the textured paint over the spot as discussed. Corvette America interior dye is not bad but you MUST use a light mist to just color the piece...too thick and you will fill in the textured pattern and that will be a bad day indeed.

Just my $.02 worth.

[Harry S.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

The original liner for a 63/64 and early 65 was made from a tightly woven fiberglass. Very thin strands. It was dyed then a 1/4 inch backing was glued to the fiberglass as a spacer and for sound proof. Over time the fiberglass becomes brittle and will crack and dent.

I had a small dent in mine so I tried to remove the liner to fix it from the inside. Due to the unique shape of the liner it immediately cracked when I tried to remove it. Now 10 years later I just ordered an Al Knoch liner. He will dye it to the color of the original and that is what I will live with.

As said, no one makes one like the original because no one makes the woven fiberglass material to supply Al Knoch or anyone else.

[Frank D.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

I've been told it was pressed paper but it may well be fiberglass. And, yes, removal is a killer...if the piece is fragile at all then trying to 'bow' it, even slightly, to allow removal will crinkle it in a heartbeat. I had the same results as yourself. Trying to the repair that crease is a 'no go'; it'll always show through any fix.

Again, the AK piece as I said is not perfection. But it is as close as anyone has available now. The CA product is abysmal...its vinyl glued to a hard plastic shell and it all came down on me the first day I had it out in the Florida heat - what a mess. The rear 'ears' are missing too so the roof shows through past the headliner edge when installed.

First pic is the CA piece; the next two are the AK piece (my red headliner)....pics are taken to exaggerate the texture but you get the idea...judge for yourself. The last pic is of a 100% original survivor headliner (black)...

[Harry S.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

At the Florida Regional I gave a section to Al Knock to help determine the material. He immediately said woven fiberglass then started to strip a few of the fine threads away. He said the material has not been available for at least 15 years. I got the same answer from the owner of http://www.autoentec.com/

The Al Knoch liner is glued to plastic. Since I'm doing a removable hardtop for my 63 roadster this will be a whole lot easier than a coupe. The headliner in my 63 coupe is perfect so I'm lucky there.

[Frank D.]

Re: '63 - '64 hardtop headliner repair questions

I believe you and you are indeed lucky.
I should have left my split window headliner alone...it had some dicey looking areas but overall wasn't awful.
It didn't survive removal to the extent I didn't want to reinstall it - a shame...
I learned from that and 'touched up' a couple for friends that came out decently...