Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

[John C.]

Hi,

I removed the gunk from the starter ID tag and sadly discovered it was a 1107649-5M14, the correct starter for a 1956 V8 passenger car with a Powerglide. I understand that a 1107627 is the correct starter for a Corvette and my engine is a May FG motor. Anyone care to speculate why it has the passenger car starter? If it needed to be replaced, why not simply put in the 1107627 starter? Grrrrr!

Btw, I have ordered the NCRS TM for 1956-1957, but has not yet arrived.


Thanks!


John

[Mark S.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

John: Back in the day it was common to replace a bad starter with one that would cross reference to the bad one. They may have brought the Corvette starter in as a core, or they might have had the passenger starter on hand. There were plenty of passenger starters that would work in a Corvette. People at that time were not so concerned about the numbers being exactly right. Sincerely, Mark

[John C.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi Mark,


Jeeze....so far I have discovered a wrong fuel pump, wrong water pump (cut a hole in the motor mount for a fitting), wrong starter and the distributor was a later model.....I could strangle this guy!


I purchased the motor to eventually replace the one in my '56 Chevy, but I sold the car and now I'm trying to restore the motor to as it was originally equipped in a '56 Corvette. I stupidly traded the generator/tach drive for a correct distributor, didn't think I would need another generator.....gave away the original oil pan, it was crushed and wouldn't fit the passenger car with power steering.....now I need a starter and a generator, I already found a pan.


Luckily he didn't tear into the engine and/or replace the exhaust manifolds with headers.....and the carbs are correct! I'm not actually sure why I'm doing this.....but I am having fun!


Thank you Mark and everyone for being so kind!


John

[Joe L.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi,

I removed the gunk from the starter ID tag and sadly discovered it was a 1107649-5M14, the correct starter for a 1956 V8 passenger car with a Powerglide. I understand that a 1107627 is the correct starter for a Corvette and my engine is a May FG motor. Anyone care to speculate why it has the passenger car starter? If it needed to be replaced, why not simply put in the 1107627 starter? Grrrrr!

Btw, I have ordered the NCRS TM for 1956-1957, but has not yet arrived.


Thanks!


John

John------


If the starter date is consistent with the build date of the car, it could very well be that it was used as an alternate on the assembly line. I don't know what the differences were between the 1107649 and the 1107627.

If not the above, then it's probable that the starter on the car now was a rebuilt starter installed on the car somewhere along the way. Commercial rebuilders strip down starter cores to their separate components, clean or refurbish the components. and then build up rebuilt starters. The pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to the numbers stamped on the frame (the cylindrical steel section). In fact, nowadays some rebuilders have taken to the practice of actually grinding off the stamped numbers to avoid confusion on the part of customers (i.e. customers that return the part to the auto parts store and say it's got a different number on it than the one that came off so it must not be right).

[John C.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi Joe,


Thanks for the heads up on the commercial rebuilding process.....isn't that against the rules!


I think I'll strip down the 1107649 and check out the starter nose number and other numbers I come across, then
research the possible differences with the 1107627.


I came across a post on a Chevy forum that stated:


"All 1956 Corvette starters used starter nose GM #1929006. This is the "open nose" configuration. All 1957 Corvettes used starter nose GM #1935846. This is the "closed nose" configuration."

I take that back, I think it was your quote on this forum.


I'll have to check out the differences between the 1107649 and 1107627 starter noses.


One guy on a Nomad forum said he had heard that the 1107649 was used for the automatic cars and 1107627 was used on the manual cars....something else to nail down.


The date code on the 1107649's ID tag was Dec. 14, 1955...so I quess it would be possible that it was used as an alternate, but how in the heck could that ever be proven?


Thanks again....this is great fun!


John

[John S.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

the only difference I can think of is the 627 in 1956 has a bolt in the rear of the starter assembly for a brace and 649 does not have a bolt. there are no differences in housings among the 627, 645 and 649 used in 55 and 56. there was a change in solenoids, from the early 767 in 1955 to the 789 (boot style) in late 55 corvettes and 56 vehicles.

[John C.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi John,

Interesting....thanks so much. There is a rubber boot on my 649, so I must have the 789 solenoid. I need to remove all of the gunk.

So, this brace you speak of was only used for a Corvette.......is it readily available?

Drat.....I can only find a starter brace listed for a 1957-1962!

John

[John C.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi,


Just cleaned up my 749...I see no numbers on the frame or starter nose....where are they located?


Thanks!


John

IMG_0324.jpgIMG_0325.jpg

[Joe L.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi,


Just cleaned up my 749...I see no numbers on the frame or starter nose....where are they located?


Thanks!


John

[ATTACH=CONFIG]58233[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]58234[/ATTACH]

John------



I was a bit "off-base" in my earlier post, at least with respect to these earlier starter motors which obviously is what you have. The earlier starter motors had the part number and date information on the aluminum tag attached to the frame. It was not stamped anywhere on the frame. Later starters (beginning sometime around the late 50's-early 60's) did not use the aluminum tag but had the information stamped directly into the starter frame. However, I believe the actual starter frames are interchangeable so one could find the frame from a later application with stamped-in numbers on an earlier car if the starter had been replaced with one that had been through a commercial rebuilder.

[John C.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the clarification. The terms...open nose vs closed nose starter......what exactly are they referring to? It has to something other than the shape of the nose that contains the pinion gear. Maybe a closed nose starter is the one with the casting that covers the nose of the solenoid?

BTW, my motor came home today.....ready for the engine stand and final assembly.

IMG_0321.jpg

John

[Joe L.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the clarification. The terms...open nose vs closed nose starter......what exactly are they referring to? It has to something other than the shape of the nose that contains the pinion gear. Maybe a closed nose starter is the one with the casting that covers the nose of the solenoid?

BTW, my motor came home today.....ready for the engine stand and final assembly.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]58240[/ATTACH]

John

John-------


Yes, the "open-nosed" starters are those that have exposed solenoid linkage. All "open-nosed" starters use three point, bellhousing mount. However, all three point, bellhousing mount starters are not "open-nosed". Those used from about 1957 to 1962 were "close-nosed".

[John C.]

Re: Nice Starter.....but it's Wrong!

Got it, thanks Joe!