Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

[Kenn S.]

I'm at the point where the frame is complete, suspension and steering in, and the engine block is at the machine shop. When the block comes back and I've assembled it, I'd like to start it and seat the cam. Actually, I'd like to start it and make sure everything is good to go so I don't wait months and have to pull it from a freshly-painted body. Far easier to yank when just sitting on a frame.

My question is are there any tips/tricks that would be helpful? Things to watch out for? Recommendations to guage oil pressure, temp, vacuum, and RPM? (Keeping in mind we're talking about a 1980, so the dash guages would be electrical...I'd prefer the real deal for startup, however.)

Since the engine will be running outside the normal support system (key ignition at the very least), I'd have to rig up a remote starter, set up the battery to the starter, fuel delivery won't be per normal (fuel from a can, not the tank), cooling when the radiator isn't in its normal place, etc.

I did see what this guy did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_I_aVcAsII Love the blue lab coat.

Anyway, thoughts? Better/safer way to do it? (I could buy an engine stand, but...)

[William S.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

There have been a lot of threads on this subject over on the Corvette Forum that you can check out. Basically you need a source of fuel, a battery, radiator and oil pressure gauge. I plan to start mine with the engine mounted in the frame prior to dropping the body. I have hooked up an aftermarket oil gauge, a switch for the ignition and a radiator temporarily mounted to the frame.

[Kenn S.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Ah, Corvette Forum. Yes...found two, andone had a good suggestion on rigging fresh water to the radiator to prevent overheating. Left to my own devices, I would have secured a large electrical fan to the front of the radiator, but the running water idea is intriguing. The engine cutoff is something to look into as well.

Maybe some quality time at my local AutoZone would be helpful, too, to see what guages are sitting around. I'd need the remote starter anyway.

[John H.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Ah, Corvette Forum. Yes...found two, andone had a good suggestion on rigging fresh water to the radiator to prevent overheating. Left to my own devices, I would have secured a large electrical fan to the front of the radiator, but the running water idea is intriguing. The engine cutoff is something to look into as well.

Maybe some quality time at my local AutoZone would be helpful, too, to see what guages are sitting around. I'd need the remote starter anyway.

Kenn -

I've done this many times over the years - the photos below show the pre-run setup for my tube-frame Grand Sport replica, with a 2x4 saddle that carries the essential wiring, controls and instruments, sitting on the frame; that car used a one-piece wire harness, most of which is coiled up by the left side. Battery and gas can are on the floor, and ignition switch and throttle are on the cluster side of the saddle; the engine side of the saddle carries the ballast resistor, coil, 12V+ junction block, and Ground junction block. This was in the winter, so I used convoluted aluminum dryer vent duct to carry the 4" open sidepipe fumes and noise outside under the garage door.


GSPreRun1.jpgGSPreRun2.jpgGSPreRun3.jpg

[Steve G.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

In as much as you want the fuel tank mounted when you drop the body I would do that now and connect all the fuel lines as they will be done for the completed car. This is much safer than loose gas cans and rubber hoses everywhere. Plus it tests the integrity of the fuel system.

I have a mechanical master gauge I use for oil pressure. I don't bother with a temp gauge, I have an infrared temp gun and I check it behind the stat. It's really not necessary to run it very long anyways. I have my timing light hooked up so that I can set it right away.

You don't need an ignition switch, just 2 jumper wires. One with alligator clips on both ends and the other with an alligator clip on one end and a female spade connector on the other to go to your HEI coil connector. When using jumper wires remember to always connect the dead side first (coil and solenoid terminals). Touch the other end of the sol jumper to the batt cable to crank. To kill the engine disconnect at the batt, not the coil end. The idea here is to not have loose jumpers live and risk grounding out and burning something.

I connect the exhaust system, again because I'm going to have it on b4 the body drop, but most importantly so that I can listen for unusual noises.

Make sure your trans has oil in it. If it's an automatic and you don't have it running through the rad connect the two lines together to create a loop.

Fill the cooling system with the upper heater hose disconnected so that there is no chance of an air lock.

I may add to this as things come to me.
Steve

[Jimmy B.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Once started, unless there is a problem, I would run it for 20 - 30 minutes are break the cam in.
I started my 65 engine while no body was on the car, did the usual wiring and just undid the coil wire and the engine stopped effortlessly. Oil pressure gauge, temp gauge, tachometer should be a must. An ir gun would also be helpful but not necessary. Obviously a timing light and dwell meter are needed so you can make adjustments. A vacuum gauge should also be on hand. I placed a portable fan in front of the radiator, worked like a charm.

[Kenn S.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

This is just the sort of advice I was hoping for, thank you! (I love the small aircraft-style dash, John...very nice... Since I have a little time, I'll start gathering things and trying them out (like the simplicity of the wires, Steve...I just need to take what you wrote and see it in action, so some experimentation on my part is called for...not entirely familiar with starter wiring, so some reading up is in my future). The fuel tank and lines are in place, so I could, in fact, use them as you suggest.

All in all, a reasonable approach I gather. Good... Safety first.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

No need to be overly fancy Kenn. Here a link to my start up video. I considered running a hose to supply cool water, but decided that I wanted to pressurized the system to look for leaks while they were easy to fix. There were none.. If you do this, use only distilled water with no antifreeze. It is much easy to clean up if there is a mishap like a blown hose. Don't ask me how i know ..

I did not have a fan blade installed but the water pump was belt driven. I used a floor fan to blow across the radiator and sprayed water on it as well to maximize the heat transfer. Make sure your battery is up to the task..mine wasn't.

When I stuck the distributor I used instructions Duke had posted here to "pre-time" the ignition. I didn't need to make any adjustments in this video, but I did fine tune it later. It was only a couple of degrees off.

[Steve G.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

This is just the sort of advice I was hoping for, thank you! (I love the small aircraft-style dash, John...very nice... Since I have a little time, I'll start gathering things and trying them out (like the simplicity of the wires, Steve...I just need to take what you wrote and see it in action, so some experimentation on my part is called for...not entirely familiar with starter wiring, so some reading up is in my future). The fuel tank and lines are in place, so I could, in fact, use them as you suggest.

All in all, a reasonable approach I gather. Good... Safety first.

Ken, the wiring is very simple. Connect the + batt cable to large starter stud. Energizing the smaller stud nearest the block on the starter sol activates the starter. Ignore the other small stud on the solenoid if it has one. Not used in your application. You can actually use a screw driver to jump from the pos stud to the little stud to crank the engine, but it will leave a small arc mark on the stud. Better to have a wire connected to that small stud and make the arc when it contacts at it's other end. It's a very small arc. The only other wire you need is the one on the hei dist cap beside the one marked tach. This is ignition power.

Another thing I like to do is fill the float bowl through the vent tube. With a couple pumps of the throttle it only has to crank a half a turn and it's running. Two schools of thought on this. Some like to crank it and let the pump fill the bowl with the oil pump filling the filter as the carb is filling. I prefill my oil filter and prime the oil system with a drill b4 starting, so in my case it's not necessary. I'd rather save the starter.

[Joe R.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Hi Kenn,

The Mid Atlantic chapter loans tools to their members. One such tool is an engine start up box. Here is one of their newsletters (scroll down to page 11):

http://www.ncrsmac.org/signal_seeker/Fall2014.pdf

It might be worth joining their chapter just for this! Or maybe they could give you some info on how they designed / built their box. Just a thought!

Also, how are you going to maintain the correct RPMs for 20 - 30 minutes for cam break in? This job might be better accomplished on an engine dyno.

Joe

[Kenn S.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Thanks, Steve. I knew there were only a couple terminals, but getting it wrong would likely toast something.

I've always pre-filled the oil filter, run the oil pump until I see oil in the lifter galleys, and even pre-loaded the lifters themselves. I did just read not to pre-fill the lifters because it affects the rocker arm angle. Even if I didn't pre-load the lifters, I use liberal amounts of pre-lube (moly), so it would be fine for initial startup without oil in the lifters.

I'm also a float bowl filler. It's not the starter I want to save. It's the cam. The longer it spins at low RPM, the more wear it sustains (or so I was taught when I was younger and did this more often). The idea is to get the cam up to RPM quickly and leave it there for break-in. Once broken-in, different ballgame.

This time will be interesting if I fill the tank rather than use a can since the fuel lines are empty. So there would be some cranking as the fuel pump primed the lines. Have to think about that. Maybe OK and I'm worrying too much about cam wear, since others have lived through it.

[Kenn S.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Thanks, Joe! I didn't know that.

An engine dyno would be great, but I'm not sure there's one close by. For me, too, there is getting it all back together, painted up and ready to go, only to load it on the truck and transport. So as for monitoring RPM, that's one of the things I'm looking to figure out. The last engine I built was my '70 base Corvette 22 years ago, and we started it in the car, so we had a tach. But technology and tools have come a long way, and maybe there is a simple solution I don't yet know about, like the timing lights are digital and give RPM readout (not saying they do...just saying it wouldn't surprise me if they did). If nothing else, I have a good ear and trust that it's not an exact science. It just can't sit at or above idle...

[Kenn S.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Ah, that was your video... It was your video I was actually trying to find. Thank you... I'd seen it some time ago and wanted to review it again, but didn't use the right search terms...

[Toby T.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

There was an article in The Restorer quite a few years ago about this very topic and you should be able to find it with a search in the Restorer compilation CD.

[Tim E.]

Re: Engine Startup on Frame, no Body

Kenn - If you're inclined to quickly build your own box with wiring, here are the plans I used. It references the Restorer article others have mentioned. I'm using this box right now to test the drivetrain on my '54 chassis. 12 volts really spins the 6 cylinder nicely! Tim

Engine Test Dashboard Box Compressed.pdf