Looking for early info on Bill Thomas - NCRS Discussion Boards

Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

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  • Todd H.
    Very Frequent User
    • November 30, 1997
    • 120

    #16
    Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

    Glad to, Joe. Here's a little narrative on what I've learned about my car.

    First, the things I know: I bought my '57 579C from the widow of it's second owner, Sam Woodbury, Jr. of Rancho Palos Verdes, CA. Thanks to Jim Gessner, I was connected with it's original owner, Dalton Danon of Beverly Hills. Dalton died this past November 11 at 90. Before he died, though, I got to visit with Dalton many times. Two times in person- when I bought the car in April, 2012, and when I went back to LA in June, 2013. We also visited many, many times on the phone.

    Dalton bought the car with a few hundred miles on it at Harry Mann Chevrolet in late July or early August of 1957, but he very pointedly told me to never forget that the car had initially come from CS Mead Chevrolet in Pasadena. He didn't know if someone had owned it before him, but he thought it had been used by someone, maybe CS Mead, for some racing. He knew that the car had been spun, damaging the right rear fender. He also said the car had been modified with air ducts installed in the radiator support fiberglass to vent air to the front brakes. An overflow protector was inside the gas fill door to protect the body from gas spills on hard right turns, and the outside rear view mirror had been moved forward to a more race friendly spot by the fake air duct on top of the fender so that one would not have to take their eyes off of the road as long to see who was coming up from behind. What Dalton didn't know was that someone had opened the front and back of the rocker panel areas (patches are evident today) in an attempt to vent air to the back brakes like a RPO 684 car would have. There is also a patch on the driver's side rocker under the carpet where an obstructive panel was probably removed. This work was definitely not done by the second owner, and Dalton knew nothing of it.

    When Dalton bought it it had it's original engine, 3 speed, 4.11 posi, and a 4800 FI unit. Dalton ditched the 3 speed in September, bought a 4 speed had the suspension modified by Max Balchowsky, converted it to heavy duty brakes, bought wheels from Andy Porterfield, and went racing. He raced in SCCA and Cal Club events until 1960, when he was diagnosed with throat cancer.

    Here's what I think happened during my car's time at CS Mead. My '57 is #2968, and it was built on or about March 23, 1957. It was (is) a black 579C (fuel injected 283hp with 3 speed), standard brakes and suspension, 4.11 posi, soft top only, radio, heater, courtesy lights and wide whites. It would have arrived at CS Mead in mid to late April. CS Mead was known for modifying and racing fuel injected Corvettes, and their man in charge of that was service manager Bill Thomas, known as the Smokey Yunick of the west coast, who would go on to further fame in the '60s as the builder of the Cheetah.

    When #2968 was built the 4 speed, and the RPO 684 (heavy duty brakes and suspension) and the RPO 579D (air box package) were not yet available. 4 speeds came out in mid to late April, and 684s and 579Ds in May. I think Bill Thomas modified my car, and was trying to convert it to heavy duty brakes, probably after the spin that damaged the fender. I think he realized that it made more sense to order a more race-ready FI Corvette with a four speed, especially after the exciting new packages came out in May.

    Why did it have the 4800 FI unit when Dalton bought it, and not the 4360 that it should have come with? Bill Thomas was known for modifying FI units, cutting the plenum in half to hog out the tubes inside to get more air through the engine. Pretty involved process, especially for the first few that he did. When Chevrolet released the 684 package, CS Mead ordered one, which turned out to be #5055. That was the first 684 car to reach the west coast. It was built on or about July 7, and it couldn't have reached CS Mead until mid July at the earliest. Yet the car won it's first time out with Jerry Austin at the wheel on July 27, 20 days after it was built. It's the same car that Bob Bondurant would own
    and win with later, and it's been owned by Mick Swezey since 1964. Mick told me the FI unit on it, which is a Bill Thomas modified (cut in half, then re-welded) unit that has been on it since Jerry Austin won that first race, is a 4360. I think they swapped units from my car to 5055 in the interest of getting 5055 to the track ASAP. 5055 was definitely not built with a 4360. They made the swap, and buttoned up 2968 and sent it to Harry Mann to be sold

    My evidence is a little slim, and more and more it seems that anyone that would know for sure is dead. I also think that Bill blueprinted my original engine, but that's even more speculative. Dalton said he regularly exceeded 7000 rpm with it, and he never understood why it didn't blow.

    I put the roll bar Dalton had made for the car in 1957 and his numbers back on the car so I could send him pictures of it for his 88th birthday in July, 2012. He hadn't seen it that way since 1960. Everything's pretty intact... even his homemade pointer on the firewall for resetting timing at the drag strip:

    DSC00325.jpgphoto 13.jpgDSC00045.jpgDSC00044.jpgDSC00061.jpg
    and a few more old shots..
    IMG_3458.JPGDSC00391.jpgsc025df09202.jpgsc025dc60002.jpgIMG_3462.JPG

    Dalton's friend Fred Sutherland driving:
    DSC00067.jpgand what Dalton wrote to me:IMG_0438.JPGDSC00269.jpgDSC00270.jpgcar show photo.jpg

    Comment

    • Jim L.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • September 30, 1979
      • 1806

      #17
      Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

      When Chevrolet released the 684 package, CS Mead ordered one, which turned out to be #5055. That was the first 684 car to reach the west coast. It was built on or about July 7, and it couldn't have reached CS Mead until mid July at the earliest. Yet the car won it's first time out with Jerry Austin at the wheel on July 27, 20 days after it was built. It's the same car that Bob Bondurant would own
      and win with later, and it's been owned by Mick Swezey since 1964. Mick told me the FI unit on it, which is a Bill Thomas modified (cut in half, then re-welded) unit that has been on it since Jerry Austin won that first race, is a 4360. I think they swapped units from my car to 5055 in the interest of getting 5055 to the track ASAP. 5055 was definitely not built with a 4360. They made the swap, and buttoned up 2968 and sent it to Harry Mann to be sold
      Todd,

      A couple of minor clarifications about Mick Swezey's car.... not intended to detract from the excellent narrative about your car.

      Mick bought the car in 1962, not 1964.

      The only component of Mick's FI which is from a 4360 unit is the doghouse (or plenum, if you prefer). The air meter and fuel meter are from a '58 4900 unit. As you noted, the doghouse of Mick's FI has been split apart, ported, and welded back together.

      Jim

      Comment

      • Todd H.
        Very Frequent User
        • November 30, 1997
        • 120

        #18
        Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

        Thanks for the good information, Jim.

        It's good to add a few facts to what remains a lot of speculation, at least about my car's first few months. I figured I could learn some things here.

        Todd

        Comment

        • George J.
          Very Frequent User
          • February 28, 1999
          • 775

          #19
          Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

          Todd,
          thanks, again, for sharing the pictures. Great stuff and great car. The fun that was had in that car! I hope to see the car in person some day.

          George

          Comment

          • Todd H.
            Very Frequent User
            • November 30, 1997
            • 120

            #20
            Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

            Thanks, George. There's something really inspiring in this car.

            Both Dalton and Sam (the previous owners) were really caught up with it. Sam's widow told me that in the last years he lived, when he could no longer drive it because he couldn't shift, he would sit with it in the garage for hours.. sometimes with a few tears. An old friend of Sam's sent me a video of the two of them tearing up the streets in LA in the car in the early 1980's. Sam definitely had a heavy foot.

            When Dalton was near death in November he hadn't spoken or responded to anyone for several days, and his son told me he showed him an 8x10 that I had sent him of the car, and Dalton flashed a big grin and a nod. He died the next day.

            I'll take it to few more car shows in the northern US next summer, where it really doesn't fit in too well. The pictures make it look real perfect, which it certainly is not. I'm sure people walk away and whisper "I wonder why he doesn't fix that thing up?". Even with a crack in the fender and dented side chrome I hate to change it, even though it's been repainted. It's imperfections are part of it's racing pedigree, and even if it's not perfect it always brings smiles when I fire it up through those open exhausts!

            I hope that if anyone comes across more Bill Thomas info from his CS Mead days they'll let me know, or corrections to what I already think are facts, like the good comments from Jim Lockwood. A few mysteries remain on the car that I didn't bring up, but I've gone on and on for too long already.

            Comment

            • James G.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • May 31, 1976
              • 1556

              #21
              Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

              I am so glad you really like the car Todd. It is a shame we lost BOB DRENNAN on Sept 4, 2011. He owned the BOB DICKSON 56 race car that BILL THOMAS owned and raced flor only 6 weeks. Bill prepared the car for DICKSON and when he was finished with the car BILL bought it and tried his hand at road racing, which he did not like or do well, so he sold the car. DRENNAN got to know THOMAS well in the 2008-2011 era and visted quietly with him. Very few people got to know BILL THOMAS, as he was a very private person, especially after 1965 and the end of the CHEEATH.

              BOB DIXON and other members of the FABULOUS 50'S RACING CLUB may have some answers. JOE FRIETAS knew THOMAS well also as he and DAVE MACDONALD raced with Bill's help. MACDONDALD and THOMAS worked together at BATES CHEVROLET and later DON STEVES.
              Over 80 Corvettes of fun ! Love Rochester Fuel Injection 57-65 cars. Love CORVETTE RACE CARS
              Co-Founder REGISTRY OF CORVETTE RACE CARS.COM

              Comment

              • Todd H.
                Very Frequent User
                • November 30, 1997
                • 120

                #22
                Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                I have not emphasized enough the importance of Jim Gessner's help in my buying this car almost 3 years ago. I saw it advertised on eBay (of all places) and I had met Jim through our good mutual friend Howard Goehring of Mesa, AZ, so I called Jim about it since he and the car were in LA. He told me he knew the car, that it was an ex-racer, and that he could connect me with the original owner!

                I know you've helped a lot of people in the Corvette hobby, Jim, and your Registry of Corvette Race Cars is extremely cool. Thanks again!
                Last edited by Todd H.; January 27, 2015, 08:07 AM.

                Comment

                • George J.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • February 28, 1999
                  • 775

                  #23
                  Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                  Todd,
                  I echo your statements. Jim is a treasure for the hobby. Thanks for everything you do, Jim!

                  George

                  Comment

                  • Todd H.
                    Very Frequent User
                    • November 30, 1997
                    • 120

                    #24
                    Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                    Jim, any idea what became of the Bob Dickson '56? It would be interesting to compare the modifications on the car to mine.
                    And I'll try to reach Bob Dixon (different guy than Bob Dickson?), and if you have contact info on Joe Frietas I'd sure like to talk to him. Whether or not he knows anything about my car. just read California Screamin'... again.
                    Last edited by Todd H.; January 27, 2015, 08:52 AM.

                    Comment

                    • James G.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • May 31, 1976
                      • 1556

                      #25
                      Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                      I am sending you a PM with contact info. The BOB DRENNAN FAMILY still own the BOB DICKSON 1956 CORVETTE. DRENNAN wrote many stories about the car in the SOLID AXEL Magazine ON SOLID GROUND.
                      Over 80 Corvettes of fun ! Love Rochester Fuel Injection 57-65 cars. Love CORVETTE RACE CARS
                      Co-Founder REGISTRY OF CORVETTE RACE CARS.COM

                      Comment

                      • Rick G.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • February 28, 1983
                        • 271

                        #26
                        Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                        Todd,

                        This sounds like a great car with interesting history? Please consider writing it's story and submitting it for publication in the Restorer.

                        Comment

                        • Todd H.
                          Very Frequent User
                          • November 30, 1997
                          • 120

                          #27
                          Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                          Rick,

                          I will certainly consider doing that. It seems that I might learn more as a result of this thread, and that should result in at least some revisions to the story.

                          Comment

                          • Rick G.
                            Very Frequent User
                            • February 28, 1983
                            • 271

                            #28
                            Re: Looking for early info on Bill Thomas

                            Todd,

                            Thank you. You really have a interesting car which appears to have great history. I also want to thank Jim Gessner again for all of his continual contributions to our hobby. His passion to research, preserve and share the history of early corvette racing is so important and generous of him.
                            Thanks again,
                            Rick

                            Comment

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