Still the same message "NCRS Document Validation Service is temporarily suspended. Check back soon" so is there any update on this? Thanks... 
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
I know the service is currently unavailable but I have a question. I have the NCRS shipping data report. As per my VIN the dealer and Zone numbers match my tank sticker. Does that in itself give validity to the tank sticker? Thanks -
Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
This is how Roy answered the question a couple of years ago about the service, when it existed:
"Dale,
Two things here:
Document Validation: Basically you are correct, if you have a purported GM document - order copy, car shipper, wholesale invoice, retail invoice, MSO, other, etc. any document produced by GM specifically for a vehicle. NCRS can validate or reject the document as being GM issued for that VIN.
That does not validate the vehicle in any shape form or fashion; it simply says this document goes with this VIN according to GM records. The original zone and dealer number are not items used in this determination. Also this is a non-subjective decision as we do not look at font, paper, glue, perforations, etc. Decision is made from string identifiers unique to the vehicle and documentation.
Shipping Data Report: supplies production date, original dealer number and zone where the vehicle was billed.
If no documents exist we cannot do a document validation, we could however provide a shipping data report.
this all assumes your car is not one of the 3% or so we are missing data on, due to damaged or missing microfiche."
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
The shipper report in itself does not determine anything except where your car was delivered and when. Anyone can get there shipper report and then get a fake tank sticker made to match the dealer info.
I doubt they will ever get the document services back up and running. Sounds like too much responsibility and its very easy to make a mistake and then they get called out on it. It's easy to see the fakes on the bad repros but some repros are very good. I can tell some fakes (and some good fakes) immediately as most people can. (However, ive really on focused in on 1969 as that is my main interest.) But the really good fakes I would need to see in person with a magnifier to tell if they are real as there are certain indicators with regard to printing that the repro makers can not reproduce (or at least I have not seen them) unless they use the same high speed printer GM used. That type printer requires very specific programming and is very large. You don't see them for sale anymore but some are still in use. The font can be replicated but not how it's transferred to the paper. That's only one problem with trying to duplicate old forms. There are other things as well.
However, there seems to be some members here who have some really good knowledge. If you post the pics of the docs they may not be able to tell you if its genuine but they might be able to tell you it's fake. A really good repro by someone who did lots of research will be hard to tell in pictures. But if it passes the test of a posting on here then that's a good start.Comment
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
Ed
they validate the docs using coded accounting data that appears in GM billing records they have obtained that correlates with specific VIN numbers. It is not just about spotting replicated fonts, printing techniques or artificially aged paper. And, it is very likely that the service will once again be available in the not far off future.Comment
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
Thats precisely the problem.
The numbers they use would be the ident number and order number. Both of which can be taken from a legitimate form and put on forged forms as long as they use the same vin. Those are the only numbers on the tank sticker and window sticker that can be tied back to anything GM has since car option records are not available anywhere it seems.
for example. I can take a small block car that has a window sticker and tank sticker with both numbers. Then I can make a new window sticker and tank sticker using the ident and order number and it will look legit in the eyes of the reports they use which is probably like a NICB report which also has those numbers.Comment
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
Not if they limit it to only those factors. But it is a start. It will help.
We need a organization like NCRS (and hopefully NCRS) to go further and to really get into all aspects of these documents. Since GM has repeatedly said car options by Vin is no longer available all we have is what we can prove with regard to our cars options. That makes everything muddy.
NCRS has done so much for the preservation of the real cars and how they looked when new. It would be ideal if they also took the reigns on verifying how these cars were originally configured by VIN. No easy task on any level. Maybe not even possible. However, any assistance helps even if it is all that is available for now.Comment
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
My understanding is that they use way more than those two items.Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
Well, maybe, I don't know. But there is not much else on the docs that come with the cars to verify. Also, your post #3 above where you quote Roy, he states they do not check many factors, at least not at that time of his quote. Those factors to me would be rather significant.
The problem comes when you HAVE a legit document for something like a base small block and copy it with all the information in tact but change it to a big block with desirable options. That can ONLY be uncovered by using what Roy states they do not use in there verification arsenal. Without knowing what came in what car from GM, that makes any verification difficult if the repro docs have all the proper numbers in the proper place which they will have if they start with an original form.
Also, the reverse becomes problematic. I have seen docs that I am reasonably convinced are real but would probably not be verifiable as some of the numerical identifiers are missing. Those can still be verified if you know what to look for but verification can not be done without close examination.
Either way, NCRS has the resources and ability to be the best choice to make it happen if they so choose. Having something from NCRS saying your car or paperwork is legit is and always has been a great asset for any owner. But obviously it must be consistent, reliable and fairly infallible for people to have confidence in the process which of course they already know.
Then you have the problem of making a single mistake and someone yelling bloody murder because you call there car into question. I can see how ugly it can get. Or worse you actually do see a problem and the owner being very unhappy and then the fallout which follows.Comment
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Re: Any Update Re: Document Validation Service
Well, I have to say with my Mustangs and Shelbys I always thank heaven for Lois Eminger, really too bad GM didn't have such a lady who took charge and made sure all Ford owners have exactly the info you speak of. Without her all Ford owners of the early cars would be in the same fix as GM owners, but they aren't. If you haven't heard about her, this is a good read about auto history:
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