58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

[Eric S.]

Hi NCRS Members!

58 spark plug life has been getting shorter and shorter. 3-or-4 drives and it starts to foul; spark plugs would last 6-or-12 months before. Bad hesitation/stumbling/rough running from pulling out at stop light.

So I had my carbs restored. After rebuild, when I put 1/4 cup or more gas down Cabrs to dry start, all the gas started pouring out the bottom of the Carbs onto the intake manifold. IS THIS HOW IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE FOR A WCFB DUAL QUADS?

At this time the fresh rebuilt stock fuel pump failed to bring gas down the line and up to the carbs, so I put back the old Holley fuel pump which has a couple of pounds more fuel pressure.

I've got the mixture screws set OK, with around 12 degrees advanced on the crank, but same problem as before carbs was restored. With restored carbs put new spark plugs and new spark plug wires.

Help appreciated. Rather have old carbs for looks rather than new Edelbrock carburetor for better driveability.

Thanks,
Eric

[Stuart F.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Just to the point about the gas you pour in leaking out from the carb bases; No. 1) Are you sure you have the correct base gaskets? No. 2) Did your rebuild include at least a check of your throttle shafts for excessive wear? No. 3) Did you pour the gas into the primary (front) throttle bores of one or both carbs ? (should prime only into front bores of rear carb and not too much). Many people will advise against priming, but if done carefully it sure saves the battery and starter. Be sure to replace your air filter before a starting attempt.

Stu Fox

[Nicholas L.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Have you checked your ignition coil? Had a similar problem years ago and it was the coil.

[Thomas H.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Need to find out where that fuel is leaking from, not the way it is supposed to work.

Coil is a good suggestion. What heat range plugs are you running?

More fuel pressure is not always good with these carbs. Too much pressure can overpower the needle valve seal causing flooding

Tom

[Doug F.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

The plugs fouled and the dual points did not last long on my '61 270 HP. My "fix" treats the symptom and not the problem. In the 90's I put a MSD box behind the passenger kick panel. MSD box fires hotter spark and I have not fouled the plugs since. one set of the points was crippled and they only break the signal circuit to the NSD box, so the points have lasted 20 years too. Easier starting and idling probably since the ignition sytem is not fouled and pitted.

[Frank D.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

I have 6 of these carbs (a single on my split window) and two dual quad sets. When set up properly they are phenomenal....I wouldn't bolt on Edlejunk instead. Your throttle shafts WILL leak gas if you run a bunch down the throats...the throttle shafts have to have space around them to move -- they aren't meant to be fluid-tight. I don't know why you'd dump gas down them anyway. My dual quads fire off with the flick of the key after sitting for weeks.

Float level and location on these carbs is hyper-critical. Floats must be set to specs exactly and they must be precisely centered in the smaller-than-average fuel bowls. If they are touching the sides at times or sticking you can certainly get too much gas flowing. As mentioned, if your fuel pump is over-pressured you can drive the needle valves off their seats too. I don't like to run much more than 5 to 5-1/2 lbs to these carbs.

I also run a Pertronix III billet distributor and stored the old non-vacuum advance dual point dizzy. Running NGK-XR4 plugs helped a lot - they are a tad hotter than the old R45S plugs. If the coil or wires were an issue I think you would experience 'breakdown' at high RPMs and that's not what I'm hearing. I also run Daytona Parts needle valves; they have an improved design that really helps with these carbs (www.daytonaparts.com).

Finally - if you are fuel-fouling plugs that badly you need to get it fixed before driving too much and immediately change your engine oil.
If your carbs are dumping raw gas into those cylinders its washing down the walls and diluting your oil.

[Stuart F.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Frank;

All good info. I used to build dual quad sets back in the day for straight and circle track racing. Much of what you said was right on. I refrained from further posting as I believe someone said they didn't ask how they work, rather why they leak gas on prime. I recall how touchy the needle and seats were and when we had a leaker while the engine was running and flames were coming out the lakes plugs, we'd rap the top of the carb to clear the junk from the stuck seat.

Stu Fox

[Stuart F.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Frank;

I looked at the web site for Daytonaparts, and in particular, their inlet valves. I have used "Tomco" inlet valves in my recent projects with AFB models. The only reason I took them out was that their valve body is some sort of pot metal and they break in two very easily. They also required setting the floats in a manner that renders them useless to change them back to original needle and seats. I bought a set of aftermarket floats to modify and use with the valves, but they weighed in at less than the originals. A few years back, I bought some rebuild kits from Eckler's which had the Tomco type fuel valves included. These were the ones I broke. They used a hex shaped body allowing use of a socket to tighten, and ol torqer here turned them in a bit tight.

Stu Fox

[Frank D.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

The Daytona concept is a little different...the needle valve seats are pretty beefy but they come with three circular gaskets and a chart of how many to use for each application ... the typical WCFB uses two. This adjusts the seat so that the floats can be set normally without changing them out or undue bending of parts. I should have taken some pics of my '63 carb. It has these floats - I had it apart just yesterday to install the "stall on left turn" fix many of these carbs need.

Frankie

[Richard M.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Here is a thread from a while ago with some pertinent rebuild kit info. I used the DP kit with the Tomco setup and I liked it alot.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...267#post500267

Some pics of a WCFB rebuild using them.

http://s684.photobucket.com/user/richmz/library/Misc/WCFB%20Carburetor%20Rebuild

[Frank D.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Unfortunately Daytona's rebuild kit still has those crappy tan air cleaner-to-carb gaskets that cause corrosion on WCFBs. I tossed those damn things and went with Dr. Rebuild black fiber gaskets. Rich knows what I'm talking about.

We actually discovered this on my '63 and when a lot of folks on the CF started looking at their carbs with these gaskets they all had the corrosion after a time.

[Richard M.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Yup.........and this was it after unwrapping the plastic from your carb after about a year on the shelf at your house. Nasty.

PA190082.jpgPA190083.jpgPA190084.jpgPA190085.jpgPA190086.jpg

[Frank D.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

That's my '63 carb, and these are on my '61 Bob Kunz restored 'real deal' 270hp carbs after a year of storage - which PO'ed me royally; these were stored with huge bags of desiccant in the box too; if you have those tan gaskets TOSS THEM OUT !!

[Stuart F.]

Re: 58 WCFB 2x4 Dual Quad Carb Problem

Wow! That's some bad stuff! Old Doc has some good products. I always go to him for my 63 AFB base gaskets as they are the only correct ones I've found. None of the others fit right and often had vacuum leaks as a result.

I may try a set of the Daytonaparts fuel valves in my "experimental" 3721sb carb next time around. Right now I'm still trying to get my distributor back together. Almost all of the parts I bought for it were junk. Consider it a lesson learned. I've spent far more on it for new tools and parts then I can ever use, but I know how and what to do now.

Stu Fox