I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

[Don H.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Mike
anyone who reads the disclaimer on the back of the Top Flight "certificate" (it even carries an embossed imprint of NCRS certification on it) can see it is lawerspeak to protect the club against any liability for false representation. But the fact is that the club did certify a given Top Flight car for achieving 94% of the "appearance" of originality on a given day at a given meet. And that certification is in the record that you can buy from the club anytime in the future for $300. The rub comes when 99% of people in and outside of the club believe that the club judges "actual" originality, and not just the appearance of originality, AND that once so certified, forever 94% it must remain. There does not seem to be anyway to dissuade people of that idea, not matter how often people like Mike Ward and many others point it out.

[Mark D.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

'...real deal'?

You forgot 'No Issues'

[Michael W.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

You forgot 'No Issues'

You're right. That's like 'numbers matching', correct?

[Michael J.]

[William F.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Don't have any business or other relationship with the dealer in Georgia, suspect you mean Greg Wyatt, but don't see anything wrong with his showing the top flight awards with the cars he sells. Of course, it is up to the potential buyer to decide if there have been any significant changes to the car after the top flight was awarded. Some of these posts sound like an NCRS award doesn't mean anything or that judges don't know what they're doing. Yes, there can be mistakes, but NCRS either is or is not the most knowledgeable concerning Corvette restoration. We can't have it both ways.

[Michael J.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Don't have any business or other relationship with the dealer in Georgia, suspect you mean Greg Wyatt, but don't see anything wrong with his showing the top flight awards with the cars he sells. Of course, it is up to the potential buyer to decide if there have been any significant changes to the car after the top flight was awarded. Some of these posts sound like an NCRS award doesn't mean anything or that judges don't know what they're doing. Yes, there can be mistakes, but NCRS either is or is not the most knowledgeable concerning Corvette restoration. We can't have it both ways.

[Michael W.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Don't have any business or other relationship with the dealer in Georgia, suspect you mean Greg Wyatt, but don't see anything wrong with his showing the top flight awards with the cars he sells. Of course, it is up to the potential buyer to decide if there have been any significant changes to the car after the top flight was awarded. Some of these posts sound like an NCRS award doesn't mean anything or that judges don't know what they're doing. Yes, there can be mistakes, but NCRS either is or is not the most knowledgeable concerning Corvette restoration. We can't have it both ways.

The discussion is not about the presence of an award, strictly the word 'certified' being used in the ad. As many have pointed out, the average buyer believes that NCRS certifies (amongst many other things) that a car has it's original authentic factory installed engine.

[Michael G.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Don, I agree, we're tilting at windmills if we think we can dissuade people from their beliefs that "Top Flight" equates to real originality. Those with the real incentive to perpetuate those erroneous beliefs are the guys making money off of the sale of cars that are less original than a misused NCRS document would seem to prove. I don't think we can (or should) play sheriff in every deal, so there is no way these guys are going to quit using misunderstood documents to foster their bogus claims. In many ads today, "original" means "original appearing", nothing more. It has been bastardized, just like "matching numbers" and ten other phrases that used to mean something else.

Regarding William's comments: I don't think anyone is suggesting that "an NCRS award doesn't mean anything or that judges don't know what they're doing". An NCRS award means something, its just not what these sellers suggest it means. Our judges clearly know what they're doing, but we're still a bunch of hobbyists doing our best to judge cars with what knowledge we have. It should be clear that no one has perfect knowledge of originality, so no one knows enough to "certify" that a car has its original parts. And we don't. We certify that the car "appeared" to be as original to those particular judges. That is certainly not a certification of originality, its a cert that it looked good today, to the imperfect guys who judged it, that's all.

[Robert K.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Well, it has been deleted from ebay (again?). Not only was he misleading with the NCRS certifying, but he was encouraging interested parties to call him to buy it. That's a No-No, ebay won't get their money.

[William F.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

After looking at the ad itself and giving this thread and these posts some thought, it seems problems people have with the ad are 1. the word "certify"-dictionary defines as to confirm. Would seem that the NCRS second flight award "confirms" that in judgement of judges, car scored second flight. Doesn't seem to be implying anything else in my opinion. Doesn't say engine original to car does it? 2. The other complaint is that this was a poor restoration with many errors; therefore judges were at fault for not catching these errors. Maybe true, but they gave it a second flight and that's what dealer said. I don't know dealer, I'm just calling it like I see it and don't see why some in NCRS are so nervous when someone, dealer or otherwise, posts that a car received a certain flight award from NCRS unless parts, etc., have been changed after the car was awarded whatever flight it got. Am I missing something here?

[Kenneth B.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

I am with you. NCRS DOSE certify that on that date a Corvette was with in a certain condition to what is factory original APPERING that's why they give you a CERTIFACATE nothing more. Quit picking the pepper out of the fly poop. For those that don't get it CERTIFICATE means certify.

[Mark D.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

Quit picking the pepper out of the fly poop

Grasshopper...when you can ****** the fly **** out of the pepper, it will be time for to to become a Bowtie judge.

[Mark D.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

What the ****, I can't say ******?

OK, grab the fly ****...

[Michael W.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

I am with you. NCRS DOSE certify that on that date a Corvette was with in a certain condition to what is factory original APPERING that's why they give you a CERTIFACATE nothing more. Quit picking the pepper out of the fly poop. For those that don't get it CERTIFICATE means certify.

We all agree with you on that point - but that's not what the ad was implying.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: I just wonder what NCRS is certifying here?

What the ****, I can't say ******?

OK, grab the fly ****...

OK FLY BOY that there was funny. Read my post about the 1970 3 telescoping antenna for vin #'s 7400 to 7800 & also 71. I have been trying for years to get NCRS to recognize that there were Corvettes with the antennas just like the 454 manifolds with the AIR plugs. PS are we going to get paperwork CIRTEFICATION back soon? So you picked up on Terry calling me Grasshopper. Tell him Ed & his buddy was here yesterday looking at my 70 LT-1 Conv. yesterday & filled out the LT-1 registry forms. Didn't know Terry & Scott were doing a survey. PS Can you still fly without air traffic controllers holding your hand?LOL