Oil weight and brand

[Duke W.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Speaking of valve springs, here's a dreamer. A set of GM #3911068 valve springs would cost about 160 bucks at full GM list price and they're still available. There are 12 people watching this auction when I looked at it. I hope that they're watching to see if anyone is dumb enough to buy them and not watching this item to bid themselves.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NOS-Val...e899e8&vxp=mtr

The Federal Mogul equivalent to the 3911068 is Sealed Power VS677. It's manufactured to the Chevrolet 3911068 print. You can buy a set of these for about 20 bucks.

I recommend this spring for ALL small block rebuilds with any OE cam.

With careful attention to installed height - .090-.100" coil bind margin for the specific lobe at 1.44:1 rocker ratio, they will provide a valve train limiting speed of about 7200 with an OE mechanical lifter cam and at least 6500 with an OE hydraulic lifter cam. Of course, unless the heads are massaged, the engine probably won't be making useable power at these speeds.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Besides the ZDDP additive their oils are formulated to cling onto metallic surfaces which reduces friction and wear.

That's just a load of marketing BS.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Thanks guys for all your input. So I would be OK using the Shell Rotella 10-30 synthetic?

Ray------


That's EXACTLY what I would use for your application. Plus, keep this in mind: using that oil you'll be using a gasoline service engine oil (i.e. Rotella is a dual diesel/gasoline rated oil) as was originally specified AND you'll be using a viscosity that was among those originally specified. So, you won't have deviated, at all, from the manufacturer's original specs.

[Rich C.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

I tried synthetic in my 454, oil seepage was DEFINITELY noticeable. I have switched to Valvoline racing oil, supposedly has the zinc.


1973 LS-4 454 coupe owned 24 years (7 of those with a respectable front bumper)
1996 LT-4 Collector Edition coupe owned 13 months
Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA-currently on tap!

[Donald A.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Ray------


I think your best bet is going to be 10W-30 (which is one of the original recommended viscosities), but a dual-rated diesel and gasoline oil such as Shell Rotella or Chevron Delo. One or both are available in the 10W-30 viscosity but they might be a bit harder to find.

That is what I'm running in my 70 LS-5. Seems to work great. Regular Shell RoTella 10-30

[Domenic T.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Rich mentioned Valvoline racing oil in post #19, what's the take on that?
Before I learned about zinc I was using Valvoline with great success. I started using the straight wt, 40, 50, and 60 in all my aircraft as the Shell oil seemed to promote, yes promote rust, massive carbon build up behind rings and sludge in the pan. All that happened changing the oil every 25 suggested hrs. The exhaust valves stuck in the guides.
I used the same wt Valvoline and no more stuck valves BUT had to change oil ( because of color, black) every 15 hrs.
That all started in the 70's, Penzoil also had a racing oil then. Since then on my overhauled engines the TBO (time before overhaul) extended over 1/3. No sludge, no stuck valves and at tear down a very clean engine. I could never reach the 25 hr change as the Valvoline seemed to keep the black carbon in suspension. Had to change oil at the 15 hr mark. No oil filters in the engines only fine screens. The oil filter kits were supposed to double the oil life.
I just tried the Rotella and Delo oil in my older engines.
What's the thoughts on the racing oil? I don't see the CJ4 on the bottles. I have used it for years and have had the experimental guys swear by it also.

Dom
I then started using 20/50 Valvoline racing oil in all my vintage engines. The 10/30 and 30 wt engines. No problems of any kind.

[Jim T.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

I tried synthetic in my 454, oil seepage was DEFINITELY noticeable. I have switched to Valvoline racing oil, supposedly has the zinc.


1973 LS-4 454 coupe owned 24 years (7 of those with a respectable front bumper)
1996 LT-4 Collector Edition coupe owned 13 months
Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA-currently on tap!

Rich are you still using synthetic in your LT4? Does it leak anywhere?

[Duke W.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

The seventies vintage Chevrolet Power manuals recommended "ashless" aircraft oils. They are ashless because they have virtually no additives. But you don't need much in the way of additives if you change the oil every race, which was assumed.

There was concern that racing engines with very high compression ratios running at the ragged edge of detonation could get into detonation due to deposit buildup if typical additive laced road engine oil was used. Detonation usually can't be heard on a race car with open exhaust, and it can take as little as a few seconds of heavy detonation in the upper rev range to damage an engine.

Oxidized additives can cause deposit buildup if oil consumption is high, but detonation is usually not a problem with deposit buildup unless the engine is already at the ragged edge of detonation. Also, on a muffled road engine, the driver should be able to hear significant detonation, and change driving habits and/or modify the spark advance map, use a higher octane fuel, or overhaul the engine with a lower compression ratio to get rid of the detonation. (Light, transient detonation on low rev upshifts or pulling from low revs is not a problem as long as it only lasts a second or two.)

Current light aircraft engine technologies (includilng lubricating oil) were developed in the late 1940's and haven't changed much since then because of the huge cost to get anything new FAA certified.

Many true "racing oils" also have no additives for the same reason, and for that reason true racing oils are not API rated. Again, it is expected you will change the oil every race.

CJ-4 has the best additive package for vintage engines with sliding surface valve trains compared to anything else on the market regardless of price.

If anyone wants to conduct their own experiments go ahead - maybe go back to bean oil because it smells so good. I think you can still buy Castrol R, but it has very limited distribution.

Duke

[Rich C.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Jim,

The 96 still gets the synthetic, I stuck with the Mobil 1 as that's what the original owner used. Car just turned 40k. I'm seeing some slight seepage of oil at the back of the intake. I wouldn't blame that on the oil though. Personally I like Amsoil synthetic products, I use those in all my other vehicles. But the '73, synthetic leaked. I thought I read somewhere cork gaskets didn't fair so well with synthetics.


1973 LS-4 454 coupe owned 24 years (7 of those with a respectable front bumper)
1996 LT-4 Collector Edition coupe owned 13 months
Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA-currently on tap!

[Rich C.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Dom,

Check out the Valvoline web-site, pretty interesting.


1973 LS-4 454 coupe owned 24 years (7 of those with a respectable front bumper)
1996 LT-4 Collector Edition coupe owned 13 months
Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA-currently on tap!

[Pat M.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

The 96 still gets the synthetic, I stuck with the Mobil 1 as that's what the original owner used. Car just turned 40k. I'm seeing some slight seepage of oil at the back of the intake.

Always used Mobil 1 synthetic in my original owner 9K mile 96 LT4, and had similar minor leakage at the back of the intake from day 1. Eventually changed the gasket, and not a drop since.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Rich,
Thank's, was interesting and I think they are a bit modest. Years ago I talked to a tech rep about their oil's ability not to bake in the ring lands. In air cooled engines the oil would bake behind the rings when I used other oils. I did not have that with Valvoline racing oil. Penzoil also had a racing oil that seemed as good. I checked the temps oils were tested at and almost fell over. The oil was tested at about 1/2 the temp it was exposed to under the piston and at the compression ring lands. One popular brand said they tested at 250. The oil going thru the crank exceeds that, usually about 275 and about 500 at the top of the piston.
Sorry for this but Mobile synthetic bought thousands of aircraft engines that failed and Mobile suffered many law suits when they had it approved for aircraft engines.
I was maintaining a fleet of rental aircraft that I owned and the racing oil did not bake behind the ring lands, the engines looked new inside when the needed work. I was challenged by another operator for using a NON approved oil in my aircraft. I continued to use it and the oil analysis tests allowed me to exceed the overhaul time by over 1/3. The
FAA said I was operating in a grey area, BUT their guide, part 43:13 says, "AS GOOD OR BETTER", and I still use it.
Don't rent planes any more but still use racing oil in planes and cars. After reading the posts about Rotella and the
other oils I considered trying them but they do not meet the viscosity required to operate the engines. The racing oil is
way more expensive but has served me well since the 70's.

Dom

[Duke W.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

Experience from the seventies should be taken with a grain of salt. Today's CJ-4 has a similar additive package as S and C-category oils from that era, but there's a big difference in base stocks. Today's base stocks are much more resistant to oxidation, which is what causes carburized oil to build up in ring grooves that can eventually cause the rings to stick with a subsequent loss of performance.

Back in the seventies I used 20W-50 Valvoline Racing oil in my E-Production TR3, and because it carried the then current API S and C-category ratings, I also used in in my road vehicles. And since the lowest cold start temperature for any of my cars is about 40F, the 20W "low" temperature viscosity rating is okay.

There are various "racing oils" marketed, today. Some may be API rated, but if they are S-rated they may have less anti-wear additive than CJ-4.

According to the spec sheet, Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 is rated obsolete API categories SH/CD/CF because the 0.13% P concentration (.01% above the CJ-4 limit) exceeds the .08% SN limit when the lower viscosity range is 10W or less. So does it pass the modern S and C-category oxidation tests, which are more rigorous than those obsolete categories?

The "synthetic" version 10W-30 of VR-1 only has a P concentration of .10%, which is .02% LESS than the CJ-4 limit.

The VR-1 20W-50 version is rated SN because if the low end viscosity rating is greater than 10W, the .08% P concentration limit does not apply (see the API 1509 document at www.api.org ).

"Racing oils" that are not API rated are likely "non-detergent" oils that are not suitable for long term use in road engines.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Oil weight and brand

All-------


One thing to keep in mind: for 1992 and later LT1 and LT4 as well as 1993-95 LT5, GM required motor oil meeting GM standard 4718M. I believe this same requirement was made for later LS-series engines. I don't think there is a single non-synthetic oil available which meets standard 4718M. In fact, there are some synthetics which don't meet that standard.

Beginning with model year 2011, all GM vehicles require a motor oil which meets their Dexos standard. I know of no non-synthetic motor oils that meet this standard. Most synthetics do not meet this standard.

Of course, one might ask why would any of this be important once one's car is out of warranty? Well, to me it's still important. I would NEVER use a motor oil which did not meet GM standard 4718M in my 1992 LT1 and I absolutely do not recommend that anyone use any non-compliant motor oil in an engine which requires GM 4718M or Dexos motor oil.