Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

[Domenic T.]

I have 3 distributors to set up and need a good shop with a distributor machine that can do the weights,springs and advance curves. I used to use Midway in Orange Co and Hays, (stinger ignition). All 3 may be the same people. I called the # on an old card that was no longer.

Dom

[Joe C.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

I have 3 distributors to set up and need a good shop with a distributor machine that can do the weights,springs and advance curves. I used to use Midway in Orange Co and Hays, (stinger ignition). All 3 may be the same people. I called the # on an old card that was no longer.

Dom

Dom,

If you can't find anyone in your vicinity, then use Lars Grimsrud

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Grimsrud

he has written numerous technical papers on ignition and carburetor tuning. He is very well respected and does excellent work.

V8fastcars@msn.com

[Domenic T.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
He looks good (Lars) and if nothing as good near by I will contact him. One was set up already for my screaming SB, but I forgot which one was for the SB and I want my SB to run like it did. The other 2 are for BB's and they will need all the help they can get to wind up.

Dom

[Joe C.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Can't help with BB's.

If you have a timing light and timing tape on the dampner then I can walk you through it. Dial back light is OK but I prefer the degreed dampner and a non dial-back light.
Simple premise is that SB with iron heads perform best with max WOT advance @ 36-38 degrees; aluminum heads with compact chambers run best @ 32-34 degrees. Flat top pistons prefer about 1 degree less advance than domed pistons because the flame propagation rate is slightly faster without the obstruction of the dome.
Vac advance can is based on your cam and the engine's idle vacuum.
Cruise advance (initial plus centrifugal plus vacuum) should be about 52 degrees iron heads and 48 degrees compact aluminum heads.
In all cases, initial advance should be as much as the engine will tolerate without detonation but before surging sets in.
Same rule applies to centrifugal advance.

THERE IS NO WAY TO DO THIS ACCURATELY UNLESS THE SETTINGS ARE MADE WITH THE DISTRIBUTOR INSTALLED IN THE PARTICULAR ENGINE THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO OPTIMIZE THE "TUNE" ON!!!!!!!

[Domenic T.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
Timing is not the problem here, what I am looking for is the shop that will set my weights correctly to meet my cam, compression, and carb. When I had them done years ago they needed all that info, then gave me a card as to advance at idle, 1200, 1800, and so on then the total. These actually are published in the manual but I guess your way works also.
I just wanted everything done before I start the engine. I don't want to order springs and weights and have to do it on the car. I'm gettin to old to lean over a hot engine if you know what I mean. Thanks for the good advice and Lars.

Dom

[Donald A.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Dom

Lars all the way!!!!

[Domenic T.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
After thinking things through, it makes sence that the most accurate way would be on the car. I guess what I was trying to say is that I wanted to get a head start and have the distributor close if not right on. Then after my frame up is completed (getting close) I can fine tune it the way you suggested. So expect a PM someday.

Dom

[Joe C.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
After thinking things through, it makes sence that the most accurate way would be on the car. I guess what I was trying to say is that I wanted to get a head start and have the distributor close if not right on. Then after my frame up is completed (getting close) I can fine tune it the way you suggested. So expect a PM someday.

Dom

If you end up sending it (them) to Lars, he will ask for the vital statistics of your engine build. This will give him a baseline from which to set up your advance program. If your engine remains identical to original, then he will set up as original according to the Shop Manual.

If you PM me afterwords, I will ask for the same info.

Before you even begin, you have to decide what PON octane gasoline you'd like to use in your engine. If you decide on 93 (92 in CA) PON, then you can run a more aggressive timing program, which will make the engine more responsive and powerful. You can economize and use regular (87 PON), which will necessitate a more conservative timing program resulting in a slightly less responsive and powerful engine.

Maximum cylinder pressure is always developed at the point of max torque, so if your engine develops max torque at say, 3000 RPM, then with lower octane, the advance at 3000 cannot be as much as when you burn high test gas. The WOT advance should be exactly the same whether you burn regular or high test.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
Thank's all makes sense and I have all the cam specs, piston specs, and what fuel I'll burn. The 67 BB came stock with a 4:11 and cross country trips are out. My 63 SB came stock with 3:36 gears and with the 2:56 box, I can still have funn in town and get on the road. It was a 300/327 but I'm going to build it like my 66 327/350. I have a few extra blocks, steel cranks, 461, and 462 heads on the shelves.

Dom

[Joe C.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
Thank's all makes sense and I have all the cam specs, piston specs, and what fuel I'll burn. The 67 BB came stock with a 4:11 and cross country trips are out. My 63 SB came stock with 3:36 gears and with the 2:56 box, I can still have funn in town and get on the road. It was a 300/327 but I'm going to build it like my 66 327/350. I have a few extra blocks, steel cranks, 461, and 462 heads on the shelves.

Dom

If you're going to do that then don't make the mistake of using flat top pistons with the 151 cam.
If you need any advice on how to optimize your engine build, then don't hesitate to ask.
You have to juggle engine performance and $$$$$.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
When I restore, especially the engine I use what the factory engineering, with a few other tricks like porting, and raising the compression a bit. We were building small blocks for cars when the #s didn't matter.
Did one with flat tops that had nearly 12:1 compression. We decked the block, milled 461 heads and used our seat machine to open the 461's to accept 202 intakes and exhaust, ( SS). Then ported to remove the edges that the seat machine left. I did not cut reliefs for the big intakes. We wanted the smallest chamber with a flat top and the best quench level between the heads & block. It ran better than the ones we did with pop ups. Only problem was the cost of
Machine work for the customer. We had to send the block out because we didn't have the means to do the decking. Had to look at the broach marks on the head to see if they were previously milled, then took .035 off and used SS gaskets we bought from a marine shop, I think they were .022 thick. It out did the others we did. I still have it because I bought the 280Z we installed it in from the customer. Had a super T10 Borge Warner and a special radiator built. we designed the shroud with 2 fans and a duct that opened with wind pressure to reduce the resistance of the fans at high speeds to control the cooling. Leveled Porches but only did 135 because of the 4:10 rear.
Joe, I think our vette engines should never have lesser compression pistons installed for today's fuel and my 67 BB is the way it was designed. Now, my favorite are the SB's so I will build my 63 with the bigger valves, little more cam, and the high compression pistons rather than the flat tops.
Always sent the distributors out and just stuck to building.

Dom

[William F.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

What's the part about a "but before surging sets in"? Will too much initial cause surge?

[Joe C.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

What's the part about a "but before surging sets in"? Will too much initial cause surge?

Yes. Too much initial will cause "trailer hitching" or surge at low RPM.

[Joe C.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
When I restore, especially the engine I use what the factory engineering, with a few other tricks like porting, and raising the compression a bit. We were building small blocks for cars when the #s didn't matter.
Did one with flat tops that had nearly 12:1 compression. We decked the block, milled 461 heads and used our seat machine to open the 461's to accept 202 intakes and exhaust, ( SS). Then ported to remove the edges that the seat machine left. I did not cut reliefs for the big intakes. We wanted the smallest chamber with a flat top and the best quench level between the heads & block. It ran better than the ones we did with pop ups. Only problem was the cost of
Machine work for the customer. We had to send the block out because we didn't have the means to do the decking. Had to look at the broach marks on the head to see if they were previously milled, then took .035 off and used SS gaskets we bought from a marine shop, I think they were .022 thick. It out did the others we did. I still have it because I bought the 280Z we installed it in from the customer. Had a super T10 Borge Warner and a special radiator built. we designed the shroud with 2 fans and a duct that opened with wind pressure to reduce the resistance of the fans at high speeds to control the cooling. Leveled Porches but only did 135 because of the 4:10 rear.
Joe, I think our vette engines should never have lesser compression pistons installed for today's fuel and my 67 BB is the way it was designed. Now, my favorite are the SB's so I will build my 63 with the bigger valves, little more cam, and the high compression pistons rather than the flat tops.
Always sent the distributors out and just stuck to building.

Dom

Exactly.............very tight quench is the key to detonation resistance. Equally important is to have chambers cut way back with angle milling to allow use of flat tops and still achieve desired static compression. This is way beyond what most of the guys here would be willing to do.

Yes, I even relieve the block to help those big valves flow better at .650 lift.

You didn't mention using a roller cam, which is essential for a stout build. I suspect that you generally do, though. $$$$$$$, but results are more than worth it (with the "right" head config).

[William F.]

Re: Distributor, who has machine & does good setup? Prefer the So cal area.

Joe,
Is it bad for the engine to check total advance by revving to where max advance comes in with no load on engine? Max advance on my '67 L79 doesn't come all in till 5100 with stock advance curve.