396 Hot Start Issues

[Joe L.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

I will admit that I did not read all the way thru thi thread but I fought this after rebuilding the HIGH torque starter, installing larger cables, you name it. I put the car on the lift after a drive from LA to Garden grove, just over a hour. Changed the starter and got a good start.
Next long drive it had the same problem. I drove my vette 350 CID to work which was farther than LA. I stopped for fuel and car wouldn't start. In desperation and anger, couldn't be late for work, I took the water bucket and poured the water over the starter to cool it. Bingo started right up. So after installing a shield, whited helped, I carried water to cool the starter which worked every time I HAD to use it.
I called my former boss when I worked ( in high school), where I rewound motors and asked him for his views. The only thing I remember him saying was that heat is resistance and that was his explanation to the car starting with a cool starter motor.

Dom

Dom------


I can virtually guarantee you that if you had installed a slave solenoid, you wouldn't have had to carry around that water.

[Domenic T.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

Joe,
I'm willing to learn, and I have seen the additional solenoid on a motor home. The water thing was my guarantee that I could get a start when going to work in So Cal. Never knew if Anaheim to Van Nuys was a 1hr trip or a 3 1/2 trip and a gas stop was necessary. I only drove the vette to the airport so I could get my FIX of 50/50 pump & avgas.
I will try it on my BB Chevelle.

Dom

[Roy S.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

Just my .02 here. First the TI system is very susceptible to low voltage causing weak spark. The TI system I'm pretty sure requires a full 12 volts while the standard ignition functions with 9 volts. Second the slightest fuel leak into the intake because of carburetor bleed down will flood a hot 396 and you won't smell fuel. So when you shut it off pull the air cleaner lid, if you see vapor rising form the carb you have fuel leaking into the intake, if that is happening on a 396 you have found part if not all of the hard hot start issue. I agree with the others you have a charging circuit issue also but it may not be the hot start issue.

[James W.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

Hello Roy,

Good to hear from you and thanks for your input. John and I we will check out the carb leak into the intake manifold tonight.


Best Regards,

James West

Just my .02 here. First the TI system is very susceptible to low voltage causing weak spark. The TI system I'm pretty sure requires a full 12 volts while the standard ignition functions with 9 volts. Second the slightest fuel leak into the intake because of carburetor bleed down will flood a hot 396 and you won't smell fuel. So when you shut it off pull the air cleaner lid, if you see vapor rising form the carb you have fuel leaking into the intake, if that is happening on a 396 you have found part if not all of the hard hot start issue. I agree with the others you have a charging circuit issue also but it may not be the hot start issue.

[Duke W.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

So when you shut it off pull the air cleaner lid, if you see vapor rising form the carb you have fuel leaking into the intake, if that is happening on a 396 you have found part if not all of the hard hot start issue.

Also check for liquid fuel oozing from the primary and secondary discharge nozzles in the middle of the venturis after shutdown. Too high float level will cause this and result in hard hot starting due to flooding.

Duke

[Gene M.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

Gene-------


In every case of a no hot start condition for me, it sounded like the starter was having a hard time turning over the engine. In other words, it sounded like what is commonly experienced with a low or "dead" battery. In fact, replacing the battery was one of my early "solutions" to the problem. It seemed so obvious to me that this had to be the problem. But, it did not permanently or reliably solve the problem, at all. Then came all the other "fixes" I mentioned and more.

Keep in mind that GM once recommended the slave solenoid solution for the motor homes with 454 that experienced exactly the problem I had and what I believe is the problem the original poster experienced.

Also, keep in mind that after I installed the slave solenoid as directed and as described, I NEVER experienced the hot restart problem again and, at the time I installed the slave solenoid I did absolutely nothing else that could have "inadvertently" solved the problem----all I did was install the slave solenoid.

In addition, I have suggested the slave solenoid solution to others who were having this problem over the years and every one that I know used it solved their hot restart problem.

Joe,
No, I don't buy that. The added solenoid has nothing to do with the circuit that's to do with the starter motor cranking over the engine. Just look at the circuit yourself, draw it out on a piece of paper. Does not make sense.

The solenoid would have to be powering the terminal directly on the end of the starter to have any effect on the motor. You also would need the disc inside the solenoid to still make contact in order to engage the starter drive against the ring gear. Without power thru the disc in solenoid the starter motor does nothing. The gear drive with the ring gear needs to happen prior to the starter rotation.

If you still think the added solenoid is fixing it, then explain electrically how this occurs. Maybe we call all learn something.

[Joe L.]

Re: 396 Hot Start Issues

Joe,
No, I don't buy that. The added solenoid has nothing to do with the circuit that's to do with the starter motor cranking over the engine. Just look at the circuit yourself, draw it out on a piece of paper. Does not make sense.

The solenoid would have to be powering the terminal directly on the end of the starter to have any effect on the motor. You also would need the disc inside the solenoid to still make contact in order to engage the starter drive against the ring gear. Without power thru the disc in solenoid the starter motor does nothing. The gear drive with the ring gear needs to happen prior to the starter rotation.

If you still think the added solenoid is fixing it, then explain electrically how this occurs. Maybe we call all learn something.

Gene------


I can't fully explain it. In fact, as I mentioned, I was initially skeptical of it and would not even have tried it were it not for my confidence in the person recommending it to me.

First, keep in mind that GM recommended this fix for motor homes with 454 engines that experienced the hot restart problem. I have complete confidence that GM engineers knew a whole lot more about this than you or I.

Second, and most important of all, "the proof is in the pudding". As I mentioned, I experienced this hot restart problem in my 1969 for YEARS. I tried just about everything you could think of to solve it. This included BRAND NEW STARTERS, BRAND NEW SOLENOIDS, BRAND NEW BATTERIES, BRAND NEW IGNITION SWITCHES, and much more. None of these things reliably solved the problem. However, after I installed the slave solenoid, I NEVER again experienced the problem, even on hot restarts in Death Valley in the summer.

So, as to exactly WHY it works, I can't say. I can definitely say it works, though. For me, after all of the struggles I went through to solve this problem, that's all that matters to me.