upper ball joint rivets

[Robert B.]

Just finish installing the upper ball joint rivets on my 63. They don't look pretty from underneath. Question is, will they be able to see them during judging.

[Ron G.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Just an FYI - Original upper and lower ball joint rivets were supplied from Brainard Rivet Co. in Gerard, Ohio. I was fortunate enough to buy some from them when they were available. Originals are pressed in from the top as the rivets head is on the underside of the a - arm. They have a natural finish. Unlike the the rivets for the lower arms had a phosphate finish and got presed from the inside as opposed to the uppers.

[Tracy C.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Just finish installing the upper ball joint rivets on my 63. They don't look pretty from underneath. Question is, will they be able to see them during judging.

Robert,

The underneath could probably be seen with an inspection mirror and a light from above, but I doubt they will be looked at unless the tops are so pretty they resemble the "fake" rivets that are really a bolt. Judges look for a nut underneath in those cases. I can't imagine a judge taking a point deduction if your rivets have an ugly butt...

tc

[Ron G.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Tracy - Maybe not a point, but defintely a dot for the configuration not being tyical factory.

[Mike E.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

I followed Tracy Crisler's Restorer article from a few years ago with very decent results. Did you heat the rivet prior to installation? St. Louis cold formed the rivet which required a huge amount of force.

I did buy longer rivets. The rivets supplied with the ball joint did not mushroom enough to my liking.
Below is original and restored.





Mike

[Ron G.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Like I said, the upper ball joints get pressed in from the top as the rivet is flat and underneath the upper control arm. Lowers are the opposite. They get pressed in from the inside and the rivet's head is on the outside of the control arm.

[Mike E.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Like I said, the upper ball joints get pressed in from the top as the rivet is flat and underneath the upper control arm. Lowers are the opposite. They get pressed in from the inside and the rivet's head is on the outside of the control arm.

Ron ---

My midyear lower control arms were assembled the other way. The rivet head was on the inside.






Mike

[Ron G.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Mike - I will say that your's certainly looks to be that way, but it is my experience that it is not the norm. Excepted, of course. Just not what I am use to seeing. Nice pics.

[Gene M.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

I have to agree with Ron. I've not seen lowers with the rivets reversed. But I will say I have had uppers where it is difficult to tell which way the rivet was inserted as the peen end was just as nice as the head end.

[Joseph S.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

I have seen many lower A arms with the configuration that Mike shows. Joe

[Tracy C.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

I have seen many lower A arms with the configuration that Mike shows. Joe

Most midyear lowers I've seen have the head inside. Those on later cars tend to have the head outside.

[Ron G.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Certainly not the norm, but we porobably would need to accept it as far as judging is concerned. Like I made mention in a prior post, I have "original rivets" purchased from GM'S supplier of the era, so I know exaclty what they looked like.

[Tracy C.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Certainly not the norm, but we porobably would need to accept it as far as judging is concerned. Like I made mention in a prior post, I have "original rivets" purchased from GM'S supplier of the era, so I know exaclty what they looked like.

Ron,

I'd be very surprized if GM didn't have at least 10 different suppliers for something as generic as rivets. Regardless, I'm curious what you think the deduct might be for a non typical rivet configuration on the upper or lower ball joints.

this might be a trick question...

tc

[Ron G.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Tracy.

Two things. First, if the configuration is minor, than either no deduct or a dot. Secondly, as told to me right from GM Purchasing and an employee from Griard Rivet Co., they have been supplying the Corvette plant with rivets for many many years. Thats not to say that there were not other suppliers. As anyone who hs worked for a manufacturer can tell you that companies usually always have more than one supplier. However, what we go by is what we see most often. Most tomes an experienced judge can tell if it is factory or just shoddy restoation work.

[Tracy C.]

Re: upper ball joint rivets

Tracy.

Two things. First, if the configuration is minor, than either no deduct or a dot. Secondly, as told to me right from GM Purchasing and an employee from Griard Rivet Co., they have been supplying the Corvette plant with rivets for many many years. Thats not to say that there were not other suppliers. As anyone who hs worked for a manufacturer can tell you that companies usually always have more than one supplier. However, what we go by is what we see most often. Most tomes an experienced judge can tell if it is factory or just shoddy restoation work.

I definitely would go with the no deduct call for any bucked rivet install, regardless of how ugly. With only 5 originallity points on the lower A Arms, ball joints and related Hardware you have less than 1 configuration point to spread across everything on the line. (the uppers have even less points assigned) I might "dot" ball joints installed with bolts, but only because the "installation" element comes into play on the ball joints. Clearly the A Arm and Ball Joint itself are the more heavily weighted elements to consider here.

tc