Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

[Terry M.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

Well, they really do say that on the certificate. The TF I received a few weeks ago at the Rocky Mountain Regional says this on the back in bold letters:

"NCRS does NOT certify or in any other way attest to the originality of any car receiving ANY NCRS judging award. NCRS judging awards represent the opinions of volunteer judges on a given date as they understand and interpret the standards, which may or may not be correct. Any subsequent purchaser, observer or judge should evaluate such car ONLY on the basis of their own knowledge and opinion and WITHOUT RELIANCE ON ANY NCRS JUDGING AWARD"

Don't think you can get more clear on it.

That disclaimer has been on the back of ALL NCRS Flight awards for more than five years -- it may even go back a decade. But who reads the back of the awards. Few even want to see the award, and stories abound of ribbons laid on the dash of cars that never were judged by NCRS.

Please explain to me why it is our (NCRS's) job to protect everyone from the sharks.

[Michael J.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

That disclaimer has been on the back of ALL NCRS Flight awards for more than five years -- it may even go back a decade. But who reads the back of the awards. Few even want to see the award, and stories abound of ribbons laid on the dash of cars that never were judged by NCRS.

Please explain to me why it is our (NCRS's) job to protect everyone from the sharks.

+1, well said Terry!

[Mark D.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

Please explain to me why it is our (NCRS's) job to protect everyone from the sharks.

What do you have against sharks? You a mid-year guy?

[Rob M.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

The more you drive, the more there is to restore. And that is the part I really like best!!!

[Michael D.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

...Please explain to me why it is our (NCRS's) job to protect everyone from the sharks...

I agree.

[Michael G.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

Here’s a news flash: The “sharks” are in the water everywhere. They have been since cars were invented. Actually, way before that. I remember the sharks packing my buddy’s differential full of sawdust in 1964. It was fraud then, its fraud now, but it still happens all the time, everywhere…If you think NCRS disclaimers will have any effect on the guys who look to profit off of others ignorance or gullibility, you have been smoking some good stuff.

Consider this: Since 1953 people have been beating the hell out of Corvettes, drag racing, circle tracks, road racing, and just plain old hot rodding. They were driven in the winter, every Winter. They towed trailers, they pushed other cars, they were driven on road surfaces that even Michigan would question. Components were disposable, engines were swapped liberally, transmissions and differentials were lunched on a regular basis. Nobody bought parts at the Dealer. Bubba was the chief mechanic for most of them. His pit crew was the local sixteen-year old - when he wasn’t out pumping gas.

Virtually every Corvette built in the C1 and 2 era was abused in some manner for at least ten years before people started to consider “restoration” . By 1975, most of them were just old cars and they were treated that way. If there was some sub-set of Corvettdom that was maintained in pristine “survivor” fashion, it was a really, really small number.

If anyone fails to understand that most cars out there were once junk, then he is immediate chum for the sharks. The ship has sailed on cars that have not been messed with or completely trashed and patched together. Real NOS parts are now somewhat rarer than hen’s teeth. If you buy a C1 or 2 assume it was really tired, or worse, by 1970. Assume most of its parts are reproductions or worse. You may be pleasantly surprised, but that’s not very likely. So assume the worst.

The one car that someone “took care of” is probably where they are hiding the arc of the covenant.

If you can’t afford for sharks to take an occasional bite, you are in the wrong hobby, take up knitting or something…

...and no, I am not paranoid, they really are out to get me...

[Dale P.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

Mike,

Extremely well written. A lot of what you said I was part of. I grew up and was driving my first Corvette in 1972/73. to tell the truth I beat the heck out of that car, Street raced, drag raced, wrecked it, fixed it, put a fuel cell in it, etc etc. We all did that stuff. heck at my parent's house on Friday and Saturday's it looked like the NHRA was there. we took turns helping each other tune, change clutches, tires, drop exhausts, etc. that was a blast, that is when these muscle cars were truly enjoyed.

Someone made the point about us protecting buyers and that being the job of the NCRS. I'm NOT saying that. we do as a group need to educate people, after all isn't that what we are about? Education on Corvettes.

BTW, since this all started, I found a "rather" rare Corvette that is being sold as NCRS CERTIFIED! that is what we need to stop. An other example is a car that now has all kinds of NCRS validated documentation, Humm >> funny the last time I saw it, the car only had what to me was a bogus tank sticker.

[Don H.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

.......So this brings me to my question should we as a group not hold any car (original or not) differently? We as a group are permitting the value of "an original car" (whether it truly is original or not) to far exceed that of a NOM, fender flared, candy apple red corvette. To me they are the same and their value is what the market will bring.

I would love to see all of these classics back on the road VS being pushed across an auction block on TV. The only way this is going to happen is to stop the greed for money.

I am sure this post will start a fire storm, but I'm tired of seeing faked cars bringing top dollar, other totally originals without documentation bring low bucks because that owner couldn't find it or know how to fake it. It's time for us to level the financial playing field so ALL classic cars can be enjoyed on the road being driven as was the original intent of all the muscle car manufacturers.

I hope you do not think me a spoilsport for saying this Dale, but trying to rid the collector car world of greed is not something those of us in NCRS are likely to succeed at. Greed or avarice is one of the Bible's seven deadly sins. Greed has been part of the human condition since man first began walking upright. If you want to try to stop car sellers from stretching the truth (shall we just say lying?) to wring more dollars out of their cars, have at it. I prefer to spend my time in the garage tweeking my own car to try to reach 97%

[Tim G.]

Re: Are we all missing the point? Time for change?

NCRS awards are just part of the puzzle when looking at a car. There are Top Flight cars out there that I probably would not want to own just as there are non judged cars out there that I’d love to have in the garage. I have a non judged ’67 in the garage now that is one of the greatest cars I’ve owned, it’s never been to an NCRS venue. I hope to change that soon. We all know that some very pretty, but made up cars have made it through NCRS judging events. We in NCRS should all know to view any NCRS awards as only one part of evaluating a car for purchase if we’re looking at it for that reason. Do your homework before buying and it shouldn’t matter if a car has any NCRS judging history at all. I love this organization, but as time goes by, I really discount more and more judging history on cars I look at. Cars change and the judging process has changed drastically over the years, a Top Flight award was just a “picture” of that car on the day it was judged. In reality, it could be better or worse many years after it was judged.