I am getting ready to drop my body back on the frame. It's been many years and I've lost all the original shims. From looking at Nolan Adams book I can see the fixture that appears to measure the required shim thickness while the frame is upside down. My question is, what did the factory use as control points. Did they pick certain mounting points and call it zero? What points were used to determine "level" across the frame? I don't have acess to a large flat level surface which is why I planed to level the control points and use this as a datum. I was planning on using a 12 foot level across mounting points, but I don't know what points to use to level the frame to start the process. Being an old engineer I seek solutions as complicated and technically challenging as possible. Jerry
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Re: C2 Body mount control point
Dont make this harder than it should be. There is no magic number here. Just start with the correct bushings and a few shims at each location and set the body down. Then shim as required so that you can tighten the bolts and keep the body relatively level and keep the door gaps in line. You can add and remove shims without pulling the body back off. You may need to jack or pry it up a little to get them in and out. -
need an old St Louis factory guy
I appreciate what Wayne is saying. However, I think things are a lot easier when the body is off. It can't be that tough to level up the mounting points given all the measurments from the AIM. However, the factory had to have a starting point to make their shim measurments from.Any old factory guys have a perspective? JerryComment
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Re: need an old St Louis factory guy
Jerry -
The underbody surfaces at the body mount locations were considered "net" to design, as the underbody was bolted down to the machined steel pedestals on the body build truck in the Body Shop. The frame varied, so the shim determination fixture located on the frame gage surfaces (can't remember exactly which ones they were - that was a long time ago) and indicated the variation (and number of shims required) at each location in order to bring the height of each also to design "net". Follow Wayne's process and keep an eye on door gaps as you snug things up; short of having a full surface plate or CMM setup to measure both the body and the frame separately, that's about all you can do.Comment
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Plus it's unlikely that
your car body (as well as your own possibly) is as straight, flat and true as the day it was built. Even if you built a jig that replicated what St. Louis did with the frames, the results would not indicate the variation needed for the warped body.
Wayne's idea is the tried and true method most restorers use, I think.
MikeComment
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OK OK No question my body is not flat and true.
The cars either. Thanks guysComment
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Re: OK OK No question my body is not flat and true
Hey Jerry,
I understand the "Engineer" thing. I would have gotten out the laser levels and strings by now.
Yup...As difficult as possible.
ACComment
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Your my kinda guy Al. Wheres' my laser ? *NM*
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Re: C2 Body mount control point
Jerry: I just got somewhat done dropping the body back on my '63. I had individually bagged the shims from each of the mounts, but later found a stray on the floor near the right rear, but which one I couldn't be sure. I had some welding repair done on the frame, so I didn't expect it to be perfect when I put the body back on. I tried to use an old surveyor's level to measure the mounts before I put the body back on, but except for the two holes next to the motor mounts, I wasn't sure what to use as "zero" points. Besides, when I got done taking heights of all the mounts, double checking gave me different dimensions. #$%*#@%$^*&!!
I wound up putting the new shims back on in accordance with the shims that came off and put the body back on, but the body sat about 3 shims higher than the stack of shims I had placed. I was going to just add shims there until I crawled under and found out that the rubber pads under the cargo space floor were also about the same amount shy of contact. I solved this by putting the car in a CAR JACKET for the winter and I'll retackle the problem in the spring.
I think that what I'll do is remove all the shims except the rears, lower the body until it's supported there (and on the rubber pads), lower it until there is contact with the doughnuts by the seats, and slide in shims at the firewall to lock in a height. Then I'll use dial calipers through the mounting holes to come up with a shim count for the remaining points.
Hope this helps, PeteComment
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Re: Your my kinda guy Al. Wheres' my laser ?
I am an engineer too...blast those simple solutions. I have a laser level right here by my PC, I use it to shine spots on the wall and drive our cat crazy!..CraigComment
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That's what I use my level for too! *NM*
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