Crate Engines

[Rick Krason]

I have a 1960 Roman Red with White coves, in the process rebuilding and cleaning. The car is in fairly good condition, but not numbers matching. The bigest change I am making is replacing the engine. The engine/block that was in the car was NOT original, casting numbers say its a 1964-67 block, likely 327.
Anyway, looking to keep the majority of the car looking stock, but am planning on some performance improvements that will not affect the outward appearance of the car...........

1. Does anyone have any imput/words of wisdom about CRATE ENGINES? Looking at 383 stroker small blocks, several sites with lots to choose from on the internet. Have a couple of machine shops around town, but one builds $20-45,000 hard-core engines, the other can "put something together for me".
2. The only other major change at this time is CONVERSION FROM DRUM TO FRONT DISC BRAKES. With 383 CI and some drivetrain changes, I want to be sure to be able to stop...any input or experience with the makers of the conversion kits and the quality?

Thanks in advance for any and all input !!!
RICK

[Joe L.]

Re: Crate Engines

Rick-----

You can now purchase a factory-new 383 crate engine from GM. This engine includes a steel crank which many "built-up" 383's don't have. And, everything is NEW. You can also purchase a 383 short block from GM. Part number for the complete 383 with cast iron Vortec heads is GM #12497317. This engine puts out 340 horsepower and 435 lf/ft of torque. The 383 short block is GM #12561723.

In my opinion, a better choice in a crate engine for a Corvette is the "Fast Burn 385". This is a 350 with fast burn aluminum cylinder heads. It puts out 385 hp and 385 ft/lbs of torque. Or, you can install the fast burn heads on the 383 short block. Lots of possibilities.

Either way you go,the engine will be readily adaptable to your car. It won't appear 100% correct, of course, but it can be made close.

[William C.]

Re: Crate Engines

I would second Joe's endorsement of the GM engines for your car. Most of the street rodders in my area have gone this route because the engines are much less expensive than a custom engine builder for equivalent power, and, they come with a Warranty!!!

[Mike G.]

Re: Crate Engines

Here's a warning of what can happen. I had a custom 350 built at a local shop. I had spent $12,000 before they went bankrupt. I did get a nearly complete engine, but they never started it because that's right about when they went under. I've had to spend another grand or two to get everything right. Custom shops can get you because it's a little at a time and you don't notice how things are adding up.

[Christopher R.]

Re: Crate Engines

GM Performance Parts is having a sale right now (their first). Some crate engines are included. Go to their Web site.

Search the archives for drum to disc conversions. Lots of discussion. Summary: Disc brakes won't stop you any faster. Properly set up drums have the ability to lock up all 4 wheels. Can't do any better than that. Drums fade though in racing and going down mountains. Will you be doing any of that?

[Doug Flaten]

Re: Crate Engines

Dale and others have commented that cooling will be a problem with a higher HP engine in a C1. Plan on upgrading the radiator or addressing the cooling system.

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Crate Engines

If I did not already own an original C1 fuelie, I would take a real hard look at the Ram Jet 350. Very, very flat torque curve and looks like it would have a lot of good driveablity characteristics. "Only" 350 HP, but that C1 chassis doesn't need a whole lot more horsepower than that unless you are building an all out racer. Cost is about comprable (or less) to what I've seen for 383"s.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Crate Engines

there may be a hood interference problem as from the top of the block to the top of the FI unit is 9 3/4" at the front edge on the ram jet 350

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Crate Engines

Clem, You may be right. On an original FI, the distance from the top of the plennum to the top of the block is just under 9". However, from the top of the plennum to the top of the ignition shield is about another 1-1/4". This would make the distance from the top of the block to the top of the shield about 10-1/4". Where the problem might lie is in the cross brace on the underside of the hood and the bellcrank on the RamJet. I have seen one of these installed in a midyear. The guy had to notch the hood reinforcement to clear the bellcrank. He said that he had tried a BB hood and it fit fine, but he just liked the appearance of the SB hood better. Maybe someone has installed one of these or seen one done and can set us straight.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Crate Engines

ed i was referring to the distance at the front of the engine as posted in the GM performance parts catalog and that is only 2 inches back from the front edge of the block that they state this 9 3/4".

[Ed Jennings]

Re: Crate Engines

Clem, I measured at the front of the block also. I think, since the C1 hood id fairly flat in that area, that the interference would likely be at the center cross brace, located on the middle of the hood. If it won't fit, it's a real shame. That would be a real good engine swap for a C1 driver.

[Joe Pennington]

Re: Crate Engines

On the crate engines that have the one piece rear seal (ZZ4, etc.), will the 168 tooth flywheel for a two piece seal and the matching starter work, or do they have to be replaced?
Thanks,
Joe

[Clem Z.]

Re: Crate Engines

the one piece rear seal cranks take a different flywheel,smaller bolt pattern, but your starter should work.

[Mike McKown]

Re: Crate Engines

If "outwardly stock" means under the hood, consider that production blocks cast after, I believe 1968, do not have any provision for crankcase ventilation plumbing at the rear of the block. This means you will have to rig up some kind of system to get rid of crankcase vapors. This usually means modifying or exchanging your original valve covers and oil filler pipe for something that is not original appearing.

I haven't bought a crate engine since the middle '60's so I don't know what they are offering in this respect. Just a thought. Not sure what you're trying to do.

Another thing, a properly installed drum brake system with quality linings will completely overwhelm your "outwardly stock" 6.70/15's from one or two consecutive stops from 100 mph. So why bother.

Mike

[Jim T.]

Re: Crate Engines

Joe the starter for your flywheel will work if you use the same size flywheel on the one piece rear seal engine as you have or had on the two piece rear seal. When I put a ZZ1 engine in my 70 with turbo 400 I had to change the supplied flex plate on the crate engine because my torque converter would not bolt up to the smaller flexplate, my original starter did work because I had to use this larger flex plate. I was prepared for the starter change using the smaller flex plate that came on the ZZ1 crate engine. Wish I had checked out the torque converter bolting up before I had the ZZ1 in the car, it would of been easier.