Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

[Jace H.]

I just recently purchased a nice 64 Coupe (365 HP with factory AC) that also was delivered from the factory with original KH K.O.'s. Unfortunately some Dirt Bag car flipper 2 owners before me sold the wheels off of the car and then sold the car. My dilema is do I spend the money to buy back an original set of KH's or do I buy the latest reprodcution set for $2950 and take the hit at judging? How many points will I lose? This is a very correct original rare car that deserves to go through the judging process. What would you all do?

Thanks,
Jace
#28944

[Mike M.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

I would put original rims and hub caps on it. They will pass judging and your the only one who knows what it had from the factory.

[Jace H.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

The original jackboard has the KO wheel instructions on it. So I would need to buy a repro board/carpet/instructions and purchase original 64 steel wheels (they aren't cheap anymore). I have a nice set of hubcaps. I guess I would like to know how many points I would lose on the repro KO's since I like the looks of them. Do I lose deduct for orginality and condition for Repros?

Thanks,
Jace

[John H.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

Jace -

The repro bolt-ons on my '67 usually get a 10-point deduction.

[Jim W.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

John, could a car get different amount of point deduction for repros based on current vs. early ones ? Mine say "Western Wheel Corp K-H 306065" NO proof it came with KO's. In fact i'm sure it came with std wheel. Jim

[Joe R.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

Hi Jace:

There is a new reproduction wheel that has recently come on the market from America's Finest Corvettes at www.corvetteusa.com (they advertise in teh Driveline). It has only been available for a few months, so I'm not sure how much experience buyers have had with getting these judged.

At Carlisle this year, AFC had a sample 67 wheel on display next to an original. Overall, the AFC wheel looked pretty good to me, and was clearly closer to the original design than the other reproduction wheel that has been available for several years.

It is my understanding that AFC is reproducing the 63-66 knock-off wheels as well as the 67 bolt-on wheel, so you may want to look into this. If there were differences in the original wheels used in 63-66 period, be sure to find out what those differences are and how they compare to the AFC reproduction wheel.

[Jace H.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

Thanks to all that responded. The new repro wheel from AFC is the one I was considering buying Joe. If it is only a 10 point deduct it is a no brainer for me.

Thanks again,
Jace

[Noel K.]

Re: Reproduction KO Wheel Duduct At Judging

I just checked my judging sheets from the first time I had my car judged. I have the "early" reproduction knock-off rims, not the newer repros that are supposed to be closer to the original.

Judging category is Wheels & Wheel Covers

B. Optional Wheels ( A is standard wheels )

The judges deducted 22 out of 30 points for originality, no deduction for condition on the rims.

Further, I lost 8 out of 10 originality points on the spinners, no deduct for condition.

Therefore, total points lost 30 out of a possible 40 for originality. None for condition. This was at a chapter meet.

For comparison, there are the same total number of points if you have standard wheels and hubcaps or knockoff's.

I would suggest you obtain a copy of the Judging Reference Manual to review furhter info on how originality is determined and what subsequent affect originality can have on condition points.

Good Luck,

Noel

[Jack H.]

Deduction for repro KO's varies...

This item isn't mentioned in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual's Standard Deduction tables, probably because the option only applies to '63-66 Corvettes. But, the standard postion used to be a 10% loss of originality points.

Now, that HAS changed and the policy varies with the specific year of car and the NTL charged with maintaining the Judging Guide Book. The new edition of the '63-64 JG is still being printed/bound, so we don't know how it reads on this subject yet.

The 1965 JG has a HARSH deduction policy:

"Judging Guidance:

Deduct 75% for reproduction wheels with correct finish, color or configuration
Deduct 90% for reproduction wheels with incorrect finish, color or configuration."

I suspect this is because altogether too many cars showed up on the judging field with repro KO's on them vs. stock steel wheels + wheel covers. It was actually a LOT cheaper to restore a car with repro KO's than acquire correct original steel wheels and spend the time/$$$$ to have a set of original wheel covers restored!

The current edition of the '66 JG book does NOT ennumerate a deduction policy, so originality point loss is up to those exterior judges working the car...

The Western Wheels mentioned here are actually a 'special' case... Kelsey Hayes transferred their orignal tooling to Western (a subsidiary) who continued to produce wheels until the tooling physically wore out. These are as close as one could get to 'real deal' Kelsey produced KO's for quite some time and they differ only modestly from the factory original wheels in some aspects. But, technically they ARE a form of reproduction since they were NOT sold to/through GM...

[Jack H.]

Plus...

I don't think I'd make a move until you get/read the new 5th Edition of the '63-64 JG to see if the deduction policy has been beefed up...

[Jace H.]

Beggs The Question

Why would the deduct be different for different years?

Jace

[Jace H.]

Beggs The Question

Why would the deduct be different for different years?

Jace

[Jack H.]

Re: Beggs The Question

"Why would the deduct be different for different years?"

Because the NCRS system is essentially 'feudal' in certain aspects. The office of National Judging Chairman is one of the few paid positions at NCRS (most are volunteer) and the responsibility for maintaining the individual JG books is done by individual National Team Leaders who are appointed to their positions by the National Chairman (these are volunteer labor designations).

Each NTL maintains his/her JG book as they see fit (subject to National Judging Chairman review/acceptance). So, some NTL's look beyond their individual area of responsibility to coordinate with other NTL's with similar assignments while others don't. Some feel more strongly about this/that individual part/component than others and issue judging/scoring guidelines.

For right or wrong, that's how the system works... There IS consistency within a given judging division, but its not necessarily the same as what's done in adjacent or related judging division(s).

[Jack H.]

Re: Beggs The Question

"Why would the deduct be different for different years?"

Because the NCRS system is essentially 'feudal' in certain aspects. The office of National Judging Chairman is one of the few paid positions at NCRS (most are volunteer) and the responsibility for maintaining the individual JG books is done by individual National Team Leaders who are appointed to their positions by the National Chairman (these are volunteer labor designations).

Each NTL maintains his/her JG book as they see fit (subject to National Judging Chairman review/acceptance). So, some NTL's look beyond their individual area of responsibility to coordinate with other NTL's with similar assignments while others don't. Some feel more strongly about this/that individual part/component than others and issue judging/scoring guidelines.

For right or wrong, that's how the system works... There IS consistency within a given judging division, but its not necessarily the same as what's done in adjacent or related judging division(s).