A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth - NCRS Discussion Boards

A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

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  • Wayne M.
    Expired
    • March 1, 1980
    • 6414

    A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

    Let's put a stake through the heart of the early-to-mid '65 Muncie 4-spd speedo takeoff myth, as it applies to Corvettes and other Chevrolet passenger car transmissions.

    This appears to have all started with Allan Colvin's books, wherein he states that the changeover on use of the '64 extension assembly (ie. tail housing) #3846428 (ie. cast 3846429) for the first half of '65 4-sp Muncie production (for all Chevrolet divsion use) happened in mid-February of 1965.

    Here's why I maintain that this is not correct.

    Chevrolet Service News (Sept '64) -- 1965 Product Features; Transmissions; "The Chevrolet four-speed transmission extension housing and mainshaft are revised to provide for a right hand speedometer take-off connection. The Chevelle, Chevy II and the Corvette .... four speed transmissions have revised extension housings also for the right hand speeedometer drive location".

    '65 Corvette AIM; UPC M20, Sheet 4 has NO revision record around February 1965 for a switch from a driver side to passenger side speedometer drive connection.

    NCRS Tech documents: Surely a major noticeable change of speedo cable length, location through and across firewall, grommet revisions, clip locations, that would be required with a switch in sides of the transmission attachment for a full half of MY production, would be documented in the '65 TIM&JG. No such mention.

    July 1965 P&A30 parts catalog: shows only part # 3846428 for '63 and '64 Muncie 4-sp; '65 w/4.sp is 3857583 (ie. cast 3857584); ie. no overlap with early/late '65 designations.

    Personal experience: I've owned two '65 Corvettes produced prior to Feb '65, #04835/P0829 & #014xx/P0916, and they both had "584" extensions. In fact, I've never seen a 4-sp.'65 Corvette with a driver side speedo take-off.

    The "429" 4-speed extension continued to be produced and assembled on Muncie transmissions at least until 1969, to accomodate other GM division requirements, according to their speedo take-off design. (ie. Pontiacs, maybe others).
  • John H.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 1, 1997
    • 16513

    #2
    Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

    Wayne -

    I agree - I had an early '65 (#400-something) and it had the passenger-side speedo takeoff.

    Comment

    • David H.
      Frequent User
      • October 25, 2006
      • 92

      #3
      Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

      Thanks for bringing this up. Mine (M20 - eary Dec. '64) is located on the right/pass. side also. I remember running across a diagram somewhere that was at variance with this and caused me some concern. I don't remember finding a reference to this in the JG, but did find it agreed with the '65 AIM (E331) as you said.
      David Hobby (46447)

      Comment

      • William C.
        NCRS Past President
        • May 31, 1975
        • 6037

        #4
        Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

        Same for S/N 838 I owned some years ago with original box and pass side exit. In 35 years of rebuilding Muncie transmissions, I've never seen a Chevrolet with a '65 vin and the driver's side speedo output, Pontiac carried it for some time, but not Chevrolet, and BTW, the Muncie plant was a Chevrolet Facility in those days, so Chevy had a lot of control over that trans.
        Bill Clupper #618

        Comment

        • Joe L.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • February 1, 1988
          • 43203

          #5
          Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

          Wayne-----

          Basically, I agree with you. The 3857583 has always looked to me like a part number that should have been around at the beginning of the model year. Also, as you have found, I've never come upon ANY GM-published information that would indicate that anything other than the 3857584 was used for the 1965 model year.

          HOWEVER, for years I've been hearing from "mid-year guys" that early 1965 used the GM #3846429. Personally, I've never made any study of it. But, I assumed the "mid year guys" knew what they were talking about. Alan Colvin's books appeared to substantiate that and went further in providing an approximate date of the changeover. Generally, Alan's books are very accurate, although I have found a few errors in them; this may be another. I don't think there is any reference source in existence that does not have some errors to be found.
          In Appreciation of John Hinckley

          Comment

          • Mike E.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • February 28, 1975
            • 5136

            #6
            Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

            Very interesting observations and discussion! One question for you, on your 3rd point: Did 3-speed cars still have the speedo output on the driver side of the tranny? If so, did attaching clips, etc. change for 3-speed vs. 4-speed?

            Comment

            • Joe L.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • February 1, 1988
              • 43203

              #7
              Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

              Mike------

              I believe that all 1955-65 as well as 66-69 3 speed manual transmissions used a driver side speedo gear. So, why did they change to passenger side for 4 speeds beginning with 1965? That's a good question.
              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

              Comment

              • Mike E.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • February 28, 1975
                • 5136

                #8
                Re: A common '65 4-sp. trans/ speedo location myth

                Thanks, Joe. It's interesting to me because I have one of those 436 65's ordered without a transmission option (standard 3-speed) that had been changed to a 4-speed before I got it. The first car built in May (16517). I found the window sticker folded in the owner's manual in the plastic bag about a month after buying the car, and didn't know whether to be glad or disappointed I found the sticker. It had to be one of the cheapest 65's ever built--only options were radio and whitewalls. If I recall (and it's been about 6 years since I've been under it) the routing of the speedo cable appeared to definitely have been on the driver's side originally.
                Regards, Mike

                Comment

                • Wayne M.
                  Expired
                  • March 1, 1980
                  • 6414

                  #9
                  A few other 3-speed signs

                  Mike

                  Like Joe, I don't know why the switch-over to passenger side speedo, but it may have had something to do with the introduction of the Protecto-Plate program (was getting very busy on the driver side trans, what with 2-position shift levers, rods (angles revised for '65), so maybe it was to permit an easier read/check of the VIN derivative.

                  Yes, 3-sp (and automatic) speedo cables came through the firewall hole just above the clutch pedal push rod. This upper hole was plugged on 4-sp. cars, and the lower hole is plugged on automatics (UPC12, sheet C3; UPC M35, sht 5). Four speed cars had a few extra clips to support the longer cable (one on firewall, the other on passenger side trans tunnel. For 3-sp cars, there's a clip on the driver side trans tunnel, and even on 4-sp cars, the unused LH clip is present (I use it for reverse switch wiring).

                  Hey, I used to own a car 7 after yours; (#16524, L75, M20)

                  Comment

                  • Mike McKown

                    #10
                    Re: A few other 3-speed signs

                    My '65 is a three speed. It has extra clip(s) for the rh unused cable routing. It was built maybe Mar 65.

                    Also have a '65 Nova SS I bought new. Factory four speed and driver's side speedo cable. Later, I changed to a '66 transmission with right hand cable. The existing cable reached the right side. I think it also had clips for the right side cable routing but I'm not sure. This car was delivered 12/64.

                    Comment

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