Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

[Greg L.]

I'm looking for some advice on choosing a spray gun...

The first big job that I have in mind for it will be shooting silver acrylic lacquer on my 69. I'm thinking that I want to go with a HVLP gun with a 1.2 tip because of the metalic content...I read that some place but can't remember where so correct me if I'm wrong on the tip size for metalics.

Now I'm a little confused about the HVLP guns because a friend of mine bought a set-up about 10 yrs ago that has a compressor/blower supply and large hoses from it to the gun. The ones that I see for sale these days use a regular air hose so why the difference? I also remember seeing some place that lacquer can't or at least shouldn't be sprayed with a HVLP gun but I assume that this means the older one with larger supply hose because the Duracryl Tech Sheet makes reference to what air pressure to use with either a HVLP or Conventional gun,...right?

I really don't want to spend more than a couple hundred bucks so I guess the SATO line is out. I'm just looking for a good gun that will help me lay down a nice coat of metalic lacquer and maybe a few BCCC jobs on newer cars down the road. I already have a primer gun so this one will be just used for topcoats. My compressor right now is a two cyl oil lubed Home Depot Husky brand and puts out 5.8 cfm @ 90 psi and 6.6 cfm @ 40 psi. If that is too low then I can borrow a friend of mine's that has the same compressor so that would double the cfm.

I've seen a few guns on ebay and eastwoods site but to be honest I really don't know what I should even be looking for at this time so any guidance here would be great.

Thanks.

Greg Linton
#45455

[Wayne W.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

The Devilbiss Finish Line guns are very good for the price range. I personally am not a HVLP fan, but I am an old fart that will not change. In any case, you dont have enough compressor, and I would also be concerned about moisture with that set-up.

[Donald T.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

Greg,

I use the Devilbiss Finishline Wayne mentioned, and it is an excellent gun at a reasonable price for the hobbyist. The HVLP will work fine with lacquer, and I really think it is the way to go. It will use significantly less paint, and less air from your compressor. Also, if you are painting in your garage it will throw less product in the air and reduce the problem of kicking up dirt that can wind up in your paint.

Even with an HVLP, you will use a lot of CFM. You will need to see what the manufacturer recommends for CFM requirements and make sure you have a suitable air compressor. The spec sheets for the Duracryl should have the recommended tip size, and the proper size will probably come with the gun.

Good luck with your project.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

Your friend's gun is one of those Eastwood setups. This is really a different class of paint gun than what most painting professionals use. It has a large corrugated hose with garden hose connections because it is powered by a small blower...HIGH volume, LOW pressure, get it? The large hose is used to reduce pressure drop in this already pressure compromised system. Warm air is supplied to the gun because of the natural heat of compression.

If you're going to paint more than one car, then buy yourself a decent gun, compressor, and conditioning system for the supply. Portable non-lube compressors generally will not cut it...PARTICULARLY if it's an HVLP gun. The recommended air supply volume for my HVLP gun (SATA NR 2000) is 13 cfm if I remember correctly, and that's huge.

As Wayne says, you will need an excellent conditioning system for your air supply. If you don't invest good money in something that will remove ALL the oil and water, you will be chasing your tail and wondering why as long as you are painting. You will wonder why you're getting "fish eye", paint warts, and dust nibs no matter how carefully you wipe the car down and tack it, wet the floor, seal the cracks, change the filters, etc. etc....been there and done all that to no avail. Solution: Spend about $500-$1000 on a air system that will eliminate all the dirt, virtually all of the moisture, and absolutely all the oil.

Painting in your garage...not a good idea. It's possible with lacquer, but dangerous. With modern finishes, I would say it will be a long term health hazard, maybe even a death warrant, to spray in enclosed spaces with no ventilation. I have sprayed lacquer and enamel in my garage with good results, but it made a terrible mess in the garage. I have looked back on that electrical compressor running in virtually a paint fog atmosphere and concluded it was idiocy to be doing that. You don't realize how much vapor you're spraying out into the air, particularly with a conventional gun, until you're doing it with zero ventilation, and can hardly see 5 foot in front of you. Rent or borrow a spray booth if possible, regardless of your paint system.

[Tim E.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

I also use the Devilbiss Finishline gun others have mentioned previously and am very happy with the results. I use a 25 year old 5HP Craftsman compressor with a 20 gallon tank and it worked just fine (even though it probably shouldn't have by comparing specs).

In Houston, moisture is a huge concern especially with my blasting cabinet. What I did was run 50 feet of black iron 3/4" pipe up from the compressor, across the ceiling, back, and back down to the compressor with a couple well-placed drains. That solved my moisture problems by cooling the compressed air before it reached my gun. I also have an inline oil and moisture filter (like toilet paper) installed.

Check out the TIP Tools website....they have some articles posted on setting up a compressor, running cooling pipes, and using filters. I think you'll find that educational.

Since I was going to spray lacquer in an open garage, I just waited for the perfect painting day and told my boss that when that day came, I'd miss work! When the day arrived, it was 70 degrees, low humidity, calm, and partly cloudy. I sprayed 6 coats of color and didn't even have to sand out dust and bugs halfway through which I was counting on.

[Rod Wagner #27060]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

Greg,
All the comments are valid. They really address the issue of RISK, and how much you are willing to take, and how much you are willing to pay to mitigate the risk..
I am not a professional either, but have painted probably a hundred cars over the past 30 or so years. Some outside, most in my own garage, some in a friends paint booth, using all types of equipment. Nearly burned down my father's garage once when the enamel paint I was HEATING ON AN ELECTRICAL HOT PLATE (to make it dry faster) caught fire when the boiling vapors reached the flash point. That's a risk I will NEVER take again.
I would discuss your situation with your local autobody shop supplier. If you haven't already, begin building a relationship with them. They will tell you what works and what doesn't, since they do want your business. Most of them will not try to sell you something you don't really need.
Spray Gun - The Finish Line brand will suit your needs (good product low risk that the gun itself will fail), but as everyone has said, that is only part of the equation. I would add a good mini-regulator to the inlet line on the gun itself so you can keep track of the pressure.
AIR SUPPLY - A good regulator (probably in the $100 - $125 range) with a good filter will keep 99% of the water and oil out of the air stream - provided you drain it every day after you use it, and change the filter according to the manufacture's recommendations. Add a screw-on line filter to the inlet of the gun to keep out the other 1%, and change it every couple months. This setup is what I use here in Western Pa, and have for years. I did get a couple fish eyes in a job once, due to my lack of maintaining the system, but that was a risk I was willing to take, so I changed the filter, and repainted the bad area. From my perspective, it was a lot cheaper than the $500 - $700 3-step descant system.
Hazards - I agree with Chuck - My compressor in not in my paint area - it is in a different room ( I am a little skittish of fire now - probably due to my past stupidity). Your compressor should work, but you may want to test it. Buy your gun of choice and simulating the spraying of a car to see if the compressor holds up. If you can keep the gun pressure consistent spraying a full cup of paint (if you hold the trigger half way down on most guns, only air will flow out - no paint - run it like that for 12 minutes or so), and the compressor pumps up and shuts off while you are refilling the spray gun with paint (3 - 4 minutes), you should be ok.
Ventilation. For years I hung a cheap 20" fan on my garage window and painted to my heart's content. It worked ok, and the dust in the paint was really minimal (really). But I just purchased the setup from the link below:

http://save-now.com/go/products/1-TOOLS/ventilation/index.htm#AIR-HOG

The motor is totally sealed (again no electrical sparks & associated fire). I routed the exhaust hose out one window and put a couple furnace filters in another. The cross-flow ventelation clears my 24' X 26' garage in about 10 - 15 minutes after I am finished painting. I think the 12" blower would be much better though.
Breathing - Buy a good quality paint mask - and change the filters regularly. One of my good friends painted for years with just a dust mask - the cumulative effects of the vapros left him with a severe case of emphysema. He still paints cars, but now has to use a $800 fresh air supply system so he can breathe. Another risk you don't want to take.
The painter - The best equipment in the world will not make up for someone who doesn't take their time, is not willing to practice, or is not willing to risk a few failures to learn better techniques. Again, talk to your local autobody supply folks when you run into a problem.
most of all - Have fun with the hobby!

[Bill W.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

Dont use a hvlp for lacquers.I use DeVilbiss . If this is going to be the only time you use it there are a few companys that make DeVilbiss and Binks copys . they are made cheap and break when droped but spray ok . I have 3 or 4 Astros I use for primer & sealer....Bill

[Greg L.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

This is all great advice guys and I really appreaciate it.

Most of your concerns for me have been or are being addressed. I have a good water separator, regulator and the compressor will be outside the shop so turning the garage into a big combustion chamber shouldn't be a concern. The garage will be turned into a temporary booth with good ventilation and filters so I don't expect any problems there. I also have a good resporator from work that we use for touch-ups on aircraft so it should work just fine for lacquer. As far as getting help from my local paint/body shop well they won't be much help when it comes to lacquer. I've asked a few of them some basic questions and they even admit that their answers are guesses... That's why I'm asking so many questions here this past little while because I know some of you have been where I intend to go. Just hoping to learn from all your mistakes!

If cfm is going to be an issue I'll borrow a compressor from a friend of mine so that will bring my cfm from 6.6 @ 40psi to about 13.2 @ 40 psi so that should be okay. I'll get a mini gauge and regulator and filter for the gun.

I'm still at a loss though as to what type of gun to get... I was set on an HVLP gun but....

Some say HVLP is good for lacquer and some (and not just you Bill) say not to use one of these guns with lacquer. Why the difference of opinion...is it just preference or will the HVLP work with solid lacquer but not with metalics? I've read the pros and cons of HVLP and conventional guns and can't see why the HVLP won't work properly but then again real world experience is often different than what you'd read in a book. So what is it about the HVLP guns that make it not so good for lacquer? If I can learn enough about it then I can make an educated "risk" assessment and then decide if I want to risk it or go with a conventional one.

I like the low overspray, and large selection of guns out there as well as the gravity feed that they have. Can you get gravity feed conventional guns?

[Bill W.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

With a non hvlp gun you will get less overspray and can paint with about 35 to 45 lbs at the gun .An hvlp needs more pressure to atomize the paint. It also takes a VERY good compressor to keep up. We use a industrial 5 hp curtis with big line and special hoses and fittings .and sometimes it strugles to keep up.I dont think a sams or sears home use compressor will keep up. When we paint a car with the new paints we hold the gun back about 18 to 24 " and put about a 12 to 18 "pass with very little overlap. Hvlp guns are great for new paints (I have a DeVilbis OMX). but I use my 30 year old guns for the old stuff. before you buy ask to try one of each and practice on a old hood . most large paint stores have loaners they use for sales demos . ps I really hate lvlp guns. Bill

[Chuck S.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

Wow, Bill...That's totally different than what Sata recommends; Is that for metallics or all colors?

When spraying single-stage urethane, I adjust my material for no runs after a two count trigger pull with a 12" fan about 6-7" distance from the painted surface. At first, this seemed really pucker-up, cross-eyed close to me, but it works if you adjust your material as they recommend. For solid colors, I overlap each pass 50 percent, but for metallics (I haven't painted any), they recommend 2/3 overlap to prevent banding.

Pressure at the gun handle is adjusted to 28 psi, and the presuure at air horn is 7-8 psi...that's where the "low pressure" comes from. They sell a special air horn tool with a gage if you wonder about the air horn pressure.

[John M.]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

I am with wayne on this. I have tried several HVLP guns over the years, and was never satisfied. A high pressure gun, or one of the new Reduced Pressure guns are easier to use, especially on lacquer which tends to flash quickly. I bought a new SATA Digital RP gun a few years ago, and it is the best shooting gun I have ever shot. The Finish Line guns are very good values for the money.
Buy yourself a dessicant inline dryer to keep your airstream dry when shooting paint.

Regards, John McGraw

[Mark S. Lovejoy]

Re: Looking for advice on buying a spray gun.

Greg,

I use a DeVillbiss Finish line gun to paint lacquer with good results. They are gravity feed guns as opposed to the suction type (old school guns). HVLP setups are not for the hobby guys.

I do not agree with the 1.2 tip for metallic paint, I think a 1.2 tip will clog up with particulates. The DeVillbiss gun I have has three tips; a 1.3, 1.5 and 1.8. I use the 1.3 for thin paints, the 1.5 for primers and 1.8 for sealers or epoxy primers.

Hope this helps.

Mark