Just a "heads up" to members for a problem I had over the past couple of months with a company called "Restoration Auto Parts". They advertise quite a few Corvette and muscle car parts. I bought what was advertised as a commercially rebuilt 3859326 water pump for my early '66 L79 motor. The ad confirmed it was 5/8" bypass. I bought it and when it arrived it was an obvious fake. It looked like the bypass hole had been bushed and epoxy used to retain the bushing - very obvious. I e-mailed right away and a person named Larry responded, said to return it and they would examine it and get back to me. He seemed reasonable enough but one "delay" followed another. Suddenly, as soon as the 60 day grace period to complain was up I stopped hearing from Larry - no refund, no water pump, no kiss. Tried to complain to Ebay and you can murder someone and they don't care once the 60 days are up - it's "their policy". I reported them to the Cincinnati Ohio BBB but I doubt that will have any effect. Unless I stop by his shop with a tire billy to ask nicely, I'll never see the money. If any member has had dealings with him recently and you are not satisfied, report him right away.
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Re: EBay Ripoff
I've dealt with this company in the past, and never will again. I purchased what was purported to be an NOS idler arm, and they sent me an aftermarket part. They have been selling what they claim are NOS upper control arm bushings on ebay for several years. Some story about purchasing a restoration shops inventory, and they don't have the original box or labels. A never ending supply of NOS upper control bushings without GM packaging - yeah right. They also sell aftermarket coil springs and list them as NOS. -
Re: EBay Ripoff
Mike, Don and anyone else with this problem.
You might give this a try:
Let us know what happens.
VerleComment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
I was just noticing yesterday that these guys have a number of items listed as NOS, and are pictured in front of their respective "GM Restoration Parts" boxes. I'd call it a "logical inconsistency".Comment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
Richard-----
The term "NOS" really doesn't have any precise definition. Generally, it's regarded to mean an original GM (or, other vehicle manufacturer) part which is no longer available from the manufacturer's parts distribution channel.
However, sellers VERY often take GREAT liberties with the term since assigning the term "NOS" to a part seems to "automatically increase its value" and, of course, sellers want a part to be worth as much as possible.
I have seen parts which were obviously USED described as "NOS". This proves that the seller does not even know what the abbreviation "NOS" means. If they did, they'd know that the "N" represents "NEW". Obviously, a USED part can never be described as "NEW".In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
Mike,
I made the same mistake of buying the exact same P.O.S. water pump from Larry. I complained immediately to him and filed a dispute with Ebay ands Paypal. You will get no satisfaction from Larry, he's a snake. I did get all of my money back via Paypal. If you file a dispute through Ebay and Paypal you will get your money back, they will go after him and it will take about 30 days for the entire transaction.
Would you like Larry's Hines' phone numbers and addresses to his warehouse? If so, I have them. Email me and I'll send you the information.
Good Luck,
James West
Omaha, NE.Comment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
Hey Mike:
I just had a problem with him over the summer with my e-bay "win". After no luck with him, I went to Paypal dispute resolution and got my money back. I left negative feed back but couldn't find him listed again to see if my feed back ever made it. He won't get another dollar of mine, I can promise you that!
JimComment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
Ditto on the "NOS" coil springs. They are actually NOSR.Or repros for sure. When was the last time you saw a Corvette part listed as NOSR??? Like many others I have been around this game for a long time. When I started as a kid
NOS meant "new off the shelve". Now it's a slang word like Joe said.Comment
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Actually, it's very specific...
NOS means New Old Stock, period, meaning an actual GM (or whatever) part which has never been used. If the part is really old, and never used, but was made by Echlin, or whatever, it is NORS, which is New Old Replacement Stock. I see a lot of this stuff advertised as NOS on eBay. That's the problem, a lotta people abusing the term NOS are bleeding the meaning out of it. Of course, a lot of buyers who don't do any research before buying aren't helping, if they nailed the frauds every time they'd find some other dishonest line of work.Comment
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Re: Actually, it's very specific...
Dave-----
Yes, you have given the term that "NOS" is an abbreviation of-----namely "New Old Stock", but there are many interpretations of what this means other than the one you've provided. For example:
1) Is any NEW GM (or other manufacturer) part "NOS"? I don't think so. Parts that are still available from the manufacturer are more appropriated called "NEW GM", and not "NOS";
2) The word "old" (the middle word in the term "new OLD stock") is a very relative term. For example, a part of fairly recent manufacture, even though discontinued and of the original part number, may be quite different from an older-manufactured version of the same part. Both parts would qualify even under the more restrictive definition of "NOS" that I describe. However, they are not exactly the same part.
Some even say that the tern "NOS" is an abbreviation for "new ORIGINAL stock". That may, indeed, be what the term was originally an abbreviation of. However, determining what is "original" stock of a part is even more difficult than determining what "old" means. Presumably, a "new ORIGINAL stock" part means a part that was manufactured at the same time as the PRODUCTION pieces, but shipped to GMSPO for SERVICE use. Trying to determine that any such part qualified as "new original stock" under that definition would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do. Furthermore, later-manufactured SERVICE parts might be absolutely identical to those manufactured at the time the parts was used in PRODUCTION.
In the VAST, VAST majority of cases, SERVICE parts manufactured at or about the same time as the parts used in PRODUCTION are absolutely the same piece; no differences whatsoever. The manufacturing source, either internal or external, simply ships some of the parts manufactured to PRODUCTION and some of the parts to GMSPO for SERVICE. Later, though, the part may change for several reasons. One common one is an updated or improved part used on later models becomes the SERVICE part for earlier models, with or without a part number change. Another is that a supplier changes and the new supplier manufactures the same part in a different way, creating a difference in the appearance or configuration of the part allowable within the original specifications.
So, I don't think that the term "NOS" or "new old stock" or New original stock" really have any precise meaning. Certainly, though, they don't include USED parts and don't include reproduction parts (even though the reproduction might be identical to and indiscernable from the original part).In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Actually, it's very specific...
1) Is any NEW GM (or other manufacturer) part "NOS"? I don't think so. Parts that are still available from the manufacturer are more appropriated called "NEW GM", and not "NOS";
Well, I deal with Ford parts moree than GM, and I'll throw this out there- If the part hasn't changed in 40 years, the point is moot. However, if the part has been changed, but is still considered a usable replacement, it would be a "service replacement part", which would count as partial credit, much like a new Delco shock counts for more than Monroe, even though it's not a spiral design. With most restorers, though, it's useless.
2) The word "old" (the middle word in the term "new OLD stock") is a very relative term. For example, a part of fairly recent manufacture, even though discontinued and of the original part number, may be quite different from an older-manufactured version of the same part. Both parts would qualify even under the more restrictive definition of "NOS" that I describe. However, they are not exactly the same part.
No, as I said earlier, even a GM part, which differs from the production item, would be a service replacement, and would not, under my understanding of many years, really be NOS, no matter how old, and calling a S/R part NOS is part of the abuse I described.
Some even say that the tern "NOS" is an abbreviation for "new ORIGINAL stock". That may, indeed, be what the term was originally an abbreviation of. However, determining what is "original" stock of a part is even more difficult than determining what "old" means. Presumably, a "new ORIGINAL stock" part means a part that was manufactured at the same time as the PRODUCTION pieces, but shipped to GMSPO for SERVICE use. Trying to determine that any such part qualified as "new original stock" under that definition would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do. Furthermore, later-manufactured SERVICE parts might be absolutely identical to those manufactured at the time the parts was used in PRODUCTION.
In my circles, such a part would be considered "thoroughbred", meaning it was manufactured at the same time as the car. Many Ford parts are date-coded at manufacture, which makes this a lot easier to track.
In the VAST, VAST majority of cases, SERVICE parts manufactured at or about the same time as the parts used in PRODUCTION are absolutely the same piece; no differences whatsoever. The manufacturing source, either internal or external, simply ships some of the parts manufactured to PRODUCTION and some of the parts to GMSPO for SERVICE. Later, though, the part may change for several reasons. One common one is an updated or improved part used on later models becomes the SERVICE part for earlier models, with or without a part number change. Another is that a supplier changes and the new supplier manufactures the same part in a different way, creating a difference in the appearance or configuration of the part allowable within the original specifications.
If an undated OE part is identical to the original in every way, then it doesn't matter. One wrinkle with Ford parts is Ford stopped destroying the tooling about 15 years ago, and now sells it. You can now buy parts for Ford cars made with the original tooling, and in the case of sheetmetal, in the original subcontractors factory. It's still not NOS, or even NORS, they call it "OE tooling" parts.
So, I don't think that the term "NOS" or "new old stock" or New original stock" really have any precise meaning. Certainly, though, they don't include USED parts and don'tComment
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Re: Actually, it's very specific...
1) Is any NEW GM (or other manufacturer) part "NOS"? I don't think so. Parts that are still available from the manufacturer are more appropriated called "NEW GM", and not "NOS";
Well, I deal with Ford parts moree than GM, and I'll throw this out there- If the part hasn't changed in 40 years, the point is moot. However, if the part has been changed, but is still considered a usable replacement, it would be a "service replacement part", which would count as partial credit, much like a new Delco shock counts for more than Monroe, even though it's not a spiral design. With most restorers, though, it's useless.
2) The word "old" (the middle word in the term "new OLD stock") is a very relative term. For example, a part of fairly recent manufacture, even though discontinued and of the original part number, may be quComment
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Re: Actually, it's very specific...
1) Is any NEW GM (or other manufacturer) part "NOS"? I don't think so. Parts that are still available from the manufacturer are more appropriated called "NEW GM", and not "NOS";
Well, I deal with Ford parts more than GM, and I'll throw this out there- If the part hasn't changed in 40 years, the point is moot. However, if the part has been changed, but is still considered a usable replacement, it would be a "service replacement part", which would count as partial credit, much like a new Delco shock counts for more than Monroe, even though it's not a spiral design. With most restorers, though, it's useless.
2) The word "old" (the middle word in the term "new OLD stock") is a very relative term. For example, a part of fairly recent manufacture, even though discontinued and of the original part number, may be quite different from an older-manufactured version of the same part. Both parts would qualify even under the more restrictive definition of "NOS" that I describe. However, they are not exactly the same part.
No, as I said earlier, even a GM part, which differs from the production item, would be a service replacement, and would not, under my understanding of many years, really be NOS, no matter how old, and calling a S/R part NOS is part of the abuse I described.
Some even say that the tern "NOS" is an abbreviation for "new ORIGINAL stock". That may, indeed, be what the term was originally an abbreviation of. However, determining what is "original" stock of a part is even more difficult than determining what "old" means. Presumably, a "new ORIGINAL stock" part means a part that was manufactured at the same time as the PRODUCTION pieces, but shipped to GMSPO for SERVICE use. Trying to determine that any such part qualified as "new original stock" under that definition would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do. Furthermore, later-manufactured SERVICE parts might be absolutely identical to those manufactured at the time the parts was used in PRODUCTION.
In my circles, such a part would be considered "thoroughbred", meaning it was manufactured at the same time as the car. Many Ford parts are date-coded at manufacture, which makes this a lot easier to track.
In the VAST, VAST majority of cases, SERVICE parts manufactured at or about the same time as the parts used in PRODUCTION are absolutely the same piece; no differences whatsoever. The manufacturing source, either internal or external, simply ships some of the parts manufactured to PRODUCTION and some of the parts to GMSPO for SERVICE. Later, though, the part may change for several reasons. One common one is an updated or improved part used on later models becomes the SERVICE part for earlier models, with or without a part number change. Another is that a supplier changes and the new supplier manufactures the same part in a different way, creating a difference in the appearance or configuration of the part allowable within the original specifications.
If an undated OE part is identical to the original in every way, then it doesn't matter. One wrinkle with Ford parts is Ford stopped destroying the tooling about 15 years ago, and now sells it. You can now buy parts for Ford cars made with the original tooling, and in the case of sheetmetal, in the original subcontractors factory. It's still not NOS, or even NORS, they call it "OE tooling" parts.
So, I don't think that the term "NOS" or "new old stock" or New original stock" really have any precise meaning. Certainly, though, they don't include USED parts and don't include reproduction parts (even though the reproduction might be identical to and indiscernable from the original part).
That brings us back to the abuse and outright fraud often seen on eBay, flea markets, and even some vendors.Comment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
Hi Verle,
Thank-you for this information. I did file a complaint this evening with the IC3 organization. I'll advise later if I hear anything back from them and thanks again for the information.
Mike MarionComment
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Re: EBay Ripoff
Wow! I was going to order a set of rotors for my 2005 from him. Most of the feedback is positive but I can see the negatives from Jim and others. Maybe the new stuff is legit but the so called NOS is bogus. Nevertheless, I will look elsewhere. Thanks for the warning. MikeComment
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