Mystery Starting Problem...

[Andy K.]

My C2 is a 1965 327/350 4-speed. At first, every once in a while when turning the ignition key to start, nothing happened. However the next turn always started the engine. Eventually the engine would not start after many attempts. I had the starter rebuilt, but the same problem continued sporatically. I replaced the battery cables and both ground cables. I thought I had it licked, starting successfully many times until yesterday. After about an hour of driving, we stopped for a snack and the car would not start. I had to get several guys to give me a push while I popped the clutch. Normally the car starts on the first turn every time. When I returned home, the car started 5 times in a row. ???
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

http://home.comcast.net/~instepdrive/

[Stephen L.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

When you say it won't start, do you mean the engine will not turn over (as in the starter does NOT turn) or will it turn, but not fire and run???

[John D.]

IGNTION SWITCH??? NM *NM*

[Andy K.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

When the ignition key is turned to start, there is no response, no click, no turn of the engine, only silence.

[Andy K.]

Re: IGNTION SWITCH??? NM

When turning the ignition switch to any position the gauges respond. When the problem occurs, everything works except the starter. The problem seemed to be solved after I rebuilt the starter and especially when I replaced the ground cables.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

As stated...probably the ignition switch is intermittent. You might try to remove it and see if you can disassemble and clean the contacts.

I assume the starter solenoid was replaced with the starter AND the wiring to the solenoid is in good condition...especially the #12 purple wire that connects the ignition switch to the solenoid "S" terminal.

Are the connections at the ignition switch clean???

Also, are the battery connections clean and tight, no paint under the ground connection at the block, and the battery is OK!

A good check of the battery is to look at the voltage of the battery during the cranking cycle. It shouldn't drop below about 11vdc

[Mike McKown]

get busy with a test light

Start at the ignition switch and work out toward the starter, assuming you have juice coming into the switch which it sounds like you have since the guages respond.

[John H.]

Re: get busy with a test light

Check the terminal on the back of the switch for the purple wire for power when the key is in the "start" position; that wire powers the starter solenoid. Check that same purple wire again where it exits the inboard multiple connector on the engine compartment side of the fuse block, check it again at the in-line connector above the wiper motor, and at the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid. If you find a point without power, the problem is between there and the last point you checked that DID have power.

[Eugene B.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

Andy et al.,
In addition to the excellect advice that has been given, don't overlook the safety neutral switch. I'm not sure where it is located on a four speed car; my '65 in a automatic.

It is probably located on the transmission. Its function is to prevent the car from starting if the transmission is in any gear other than neutral.

Good luck on your project.

Regards,
Gene

[Larry M.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

I suffered similar non-starting, starter-replacement symptoms for far too long myself. I would suggest you take a look at the condition of the small-guage wires that attach to the starter solenoid. After many years of use, and various starter removal-and-replacements, the individual strands of copper in the wire can flex, fatigue and ultimately break; this will be most noticeable where the wire end terminals are crimped to the wire. The broken copper strands effectively reduce the load carrying capacity of the wire, reducing the amperage available to the solenoid switch. An extremely easy and inexpensive repair that may solve your problem would be to cut off the existing wire terminals; cut back the wires approximately one inch; strip one-half inch of insulation off the wire ends in preparation for the installation of new terminals (procured from an auto parts store; bring your old terminals as samples); install said terminals onto 'fresh', unbroken copper strand wire; reattach to solenoid, and give it a try. Worked for me. Oh, and remember to disconnect your battery negative cable before you attempt this.

[John H.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

Gene -

Midyear 4-speed cars didn't have any starting safety switch; I'm not a C3 guy, but I think the clutch safety switch started in '69 (that's when it started on the Camaro).

[Tom S.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem...

I had the same problem with my 69. After replacing and rebuilding everything that you have I found out that the in-line battery diconnect was bad.I never thought to check that. P.S. I felt real stupid after that one.

Tom

[Andy K.]

Re: Mystery Starting Problem AVERTED...

Many thanks to all of you who sent suggestions for solving my problem. I checked out every one.
It seems that starter heat soak was the culprit even with a newly rebuilt heavy duty starter.
I installed a permanent magnet gear reduction starter, also known as a high torque mini starter and all seems to be fine.
Best wishes for a great weekend and remember those who paid the ultimate price to keep us safe!