base coat/ clear coat removal

[Joe M.]

Does anyone have any experience removing base coat/ clear coat from a vette?
I wonder if any of the paint removers typically used for removing lacquer, work as effectively on bc/cc.

Thanks,
Joe

[Bryan L.]

Re: base coat/ clear coat removal

I've done that job and it sucks, the genius I bought it from had painted it 1980 Claret maroon, which is the color of dried blood. I used stripper I got at the auto paint store and it just didn't work that good to me. I ended up buying regular paint stripper from Walmart and it worked better. I rinsed everything off good with soap and water and then with lacquer thinner.

BL

[Joe M.]

Re: base coat/ clear coat removal

Thanks for your response. This is one aspect I never see discussed when arguing the merits of lacquer vs bc/cc.

I wonder when the next 'new' paint formulation will be offered. Heard SW is offering some new paint which sprays easy and metallics do not mottle. Problem is it comes in non oem colors. Not sure of the chemisty either.

J

[Terry F.]

Re: base coat/ clear coat removal

Use a stipper that is safe for fiberglass. Buy it at an auto parts store in gell form, cover the gell with cellophane and let it sit for about 1/2 hour. Cellophane prevents evaporation and saves on product. Do one panel at a time. It will take multiple applications. When you get to the original primer go slowly. Get some heavy duty gloves and some laqure thinner and a scrub pad. If you like, just stop at the factory primer. Follow the instuctions for rincing the stripper and neutralizing it. Car must sit for days to get it all out of the fiberglass. Reguardless, it will soften bear fiberlass but not as bad as full strength. It is tough stuff (b/c) to get off. I use a cloth tarp below the panel and a spatula to scrape it off with. Sometimes I use a steel blade that is smooth to help things along. Be careful not to gouge the panel. In the nooks and crany places, I put the gell on it and let it sit, after about 20 minutes I come back with clean compressed air and blast it. The paint usually comes flying out of there. You must protect your lungs, eyes, and bare skin.
Just some ideas, Terry

[Mike McKown]

Re: base coat/ clear coat removal

Find a place that does soda blasting. Yes, baking soda. You don't have to remove trim, glass, rubber, etc. Does a slick job. Just rinse with water and the soda just flushes away. No worries about the soaked in stripper coming back to haunt you in a couple years either.

[Dick W.]

Re: base coat/ clear coat removal

The problems are not related to bc/cc. We sprayed bc/cc lacquer over 20 years ago. Did it with straight enamel and acrylic enamel. The catalyzed paints of today are the ones that are hard to strip. I am a strong proponent of media blasting, whether you use soda or plastic. A good operator can take paint off layer by layer, leaving the factory primer if you should so desire.

[Paul L.]

Good Argument for BC/CC? Non-NCRS Driver

I may be wrong on this but there seems to be an underlying argument here that BC/CC might be a good choice for a non-NCRS driver. Comments re toughness and difficult to remove seem to indicate that BC/CC is a pretty solid paint.

[Chuck S.]

I Thought Everyone Knew...

In fact, I thought I had mentioned this difficulty in a past post, but a search didn't turn it up.

It's good news and bad news...Good News: Catalyzed urethanes resist the elements like stainless steel! Bad News: Catalyzed urethanes pretty much have to be sanded off. Non-original color changes are not something to be undertaken lightly when acrylic urethane is used.

The Final Irony of it all: Garage queens that exist soley for judging and display are not likely to ever see a repaint or a color change, but these cars must use today's inferior acrylic lacquer which is easily stripped and repainted. Driven cars, that can occasionally require a repaint and/or be victimized by a color change, need the durability of catalyzed urethane and it's nearly impossible to remove.

[Warren L.]

seems like time to ask

why are you stripping it.

If you are repainting it with lacquer, sand it down a bit, put a lacquer primer on it then paint it with lacquer.

Warren

[Bill W.]

Re: Good Argument for BC/CC? Non-NCRS Driver

Its all good until it fails. Have you ever seen a G.M. ,Ford, or Mopar driving down the street with big sections of paint peeling off . Or a dark color car or truck turning white . guess what... BC.CC . They all have potential to go bad .Bill

[Joe M.]

Re: seems like time to ask

Warren,

Not stripping any vette, just curious what it would take to redo a vette that had bc/cc.

Could figure into price of car if non original color was desired to be changed. You could paint over a good bc/cc paint job but what is the limit for practical paint thickness.

What is the future of bc/cc?
Is there some other chemistry around the corner that would make bc/cc go the way of lacquer?

Joe

[Chuck S.]

Re: seems like time to ask

As Dickie said above, BC/CC is a method, not a chemistry. In the past, you could apply clear over lacquer or enamel for more gloss and durability. I have heard that about 10 mils or 0.010" is the maximum paint thickness you can apply without having problems...a good catalyzed urethane paint job has to be on the order of 7-8 mils by the time you're finished.

In the context of today's modern paints, BC/CC generally means catalyzed urethanes because that's what the paint companies are selling. The young guys are growing up on catalyzed two-stage urethane systems, and that's mostly what is used commercially. Today's two stage systems are DESIGNED to be used together: there is a no-gloss base color coat that has zero durability, and a protective top coat of high gloss urethane clear...use of the clear is MANDATORY for a two stage system.

Another option is the catalyzed single-stage acrylic urethane. A single stage system means that it delivers high gloss without the clear coat. However, if desireable for even more increased durability, clear can be applied over the top just like in the old days. For solid color cars, the single stage acrylic urethane is a good choice in my opinion...it offers excellent durability but doesn't have the clear to add more depth. It will have much higher gloss than lacquer, and it will maintain that gloss with little maintenance.

Instead of using a clear top coat, durability of single stage urethane can be further enhanced by simply mixing clear into the final color coat. This technique is covered by PPG product sheets for Concept acrylic urethane. The maximum clear that can be added without beginning to loss the color is about 50 percent...this is from PPG Technical Services for solid red.

What's the next "chemistry" to replace urethane? I don't know if it's an entirely new chemisty, but the car companies are already going down the road of water-borne paint instead of solvent-borne. Heaven help us if hobbyists have to change over to water-borne technology...probably a moot point for us old geezers.

[Jim R.]

Re: base coat/ clear coat removal

Good luck that stuff is nasty , too bad it wasnt lacquer it would be alot easier. try the aircraft stuff but be careful

[John H.]

Re: seems like time to ask

Chuck -

Waterborne basecoat has been the industry standard (in assembly plants) for the last ten years or so, to eliminate VOC's from the color booths and ovens; major investment, as it requires controlling booth temperatures +/- 1*F and booth humidity +/- 2% from standard. You won't see waterborne basecoat in the refinish formulations in our lifetime, as dealers and shops don't have that kind of control technology in their refinish booths.

Powder primer has been in production in the GM-Shreveport, Louisiana truck plant for almost fifteen years; an industry consortium (GM/Chrysler/Ford) has spent close to $800 million in the last six years on powder clear development, but it's not even close yet. Clear is the last major VOC contributor - that's the last hurdle in eliminating VOC's from assembly plant paint shops. Assembly plant paint shops are the most expensive real estate on the planet - typically cost $500-$700 million just for the paint shop.