Turbo-jet origin

[Rob M.]

Had a bunch of guy looking at my car today and they asked me several questions including one I could not answer. What does Turbo-Jet mean? I thought about it for a minute and realized that, unlike "Hemi", I don't know the origin or meaning of Turbo-Jet. I know there are airplane engines that are turbojets...what was GM's logic?

Thanks

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo-jet origin

Rob-----

For many years, the small block had been dubbed "Turbo-Fire". If I recall correctly, the 348/409 was called "Turbo-Thrust". So, I suppose, when the Mark IV engine came along the marketing types wanted to "keep it in the family" and call it "Turbo-something". Someone probably thought that "Turbo-Jet" sounded "catchy" and implied great power (since jet turbine engines generally have great power).

Actually, I always thought that "Turbo-Jet" was a stupid, trite designation for the Mark IV engine. "Turbo-Jet" was already a term used to describe a particular type of jet engine at that time and, as far as I was concerned, it's use to describe the Mark IV engine family was and is a complete misnomer. "Turbo-Fire" and "Turbo-Thrust" have no "alternate meanings" and created no problems. "Turbo-Jet" was, to use a term that Johnny Carson used to use when he cracked a "follow-on" joke that fell flat, "one too many".

But, what was done was done.

[Larry M.]

Re: Turbo-jet origin

Irrelevant to Corvette applications, Chevrolet labelled their straight six-cyliner engines 'Turbo-Thrift'. IIRC, the Corvair engine had it's own unique 'Turbo-' name, which I can't recall, and the four-cylinder Chevy II had a 'Turbo-' name, too.

[Robert S.]

Re: Turbo-jet origin

"what was GM's logic?" As others suggested...marketing hype.

Makes as much sense as the 53-55 six's being called "Blue Flame"

But then again, the engines are blue and with leaky side-draft carburators there is the possibility of somes flames

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo-jet origin

Larry-----

The 4 cylinder was the only one that didn't have a "Turbo" name. It was called "Super Thrift". The Corvair engine was called, very appropriately, "Turbo-Air".

[Larry M.]

Re: Turbo-jet origin

Thanks for refreshing my memory. I did recall that the Corvair engine name had some relation to its unique status, but the precise details were lost somewhere in the dim recesses of ancient history...

[Robert Willis]

Re: Turbo-jet origin

Didn't G.M. own General Aviation ? Which became North American Aviation.

Mr. Ford and Co. named the Mustang after the mighty P-51 fighter of WW2 only to find out it had ties to G.M. , then the Mustang was named after the horse.

[Dennis C.]

"Ram Jet" Fuel Injection... *NM*

[Duke W.]

WHAT....

North American Aviation was an independent corporation in the prewar years. The (internal designation) NA-73X was designed by Dutch Kindelberger, et al. in response to a British RFP, and it was the Brits that gave it the "Mustang" moniker. Henry Ford and Ford Motor Company had absolutely no involvement. The name "Mustang" was selected by Lee Iacocca for Ford's new Falcon-based "sporty car" in the early sixties - about twenty years after the Brits named the NA-73X design "Mustang".

The early versions were powered by Allison engines, which had poor high altitude performance, and it was the Brits who first installed a Rolls Merlin in a Mustang airframe, which proved to be a world beater high altitude fighter that was then built by NAA with a Packard-built Merlin as the P-51B for both the RAF and USAAF.

In the meantime, early Allison powered Mustangs were purchased by the USAAF and designated A-36. They were successful ground attack aircraft and saw lots of service in the North Africa campaign.

The definitive WW II Mustang was the D-model with a bubble canopy and upgraded armament along with many other improvements including an improved Merlin built under license by Packard. The final H-model was much lighter with a completely redesigned airframe, but they were built too late to see service in WW II. At the time, late forties, they were the world's fastest piston engine fighter.

An interesting variation was the P/F-82 "Twin Mustang" that was formed by mating two Mustangs by the wing. It was a successful night fighter in the early post-war years.

GM built airplanes and all matter of war equipment during WW II (and so did Ford and Chrysler) since the aircraft industry didn't have the capacity for the required volume, but all aircraft that the automotive industry built were designed by the airframe companies. One that GM built in large quantities was the Grumman F4F-4 Wildcat, and GM built versions of this aircraft (I think they were built at the Baltimore plane.) were designated FM-1. This freed up Grumman production capacity for the F6F Hellcat and follow-on designs, Tigercat and Bearcat.

North American Aviation designed and built the F-100 and other aircraft in the fifites and was acquired by Rockwell Corp. sometime in the sixties or early seventies and became the North American Aircraft Division of Rockwell International. During this era they designed/built the B-1 among other post war designs, including modifying C-130s to AC-130 gunship configuration and an interesting X-plane for NASA that had "reverse" swept wings. After Rockwell sold all its aerospace operations to Boeing in the early nineties, I think North American effectively ceased to exist as a division, and they are long gone from their old buildings on Aviation Blvd. in El Segundo, CA. (They were a customer of mine when I was with IBM in the eighties and had a great "wall of fame" with photos and artists' renderings of all their designs going back to the early days.)

So what does all this have to do with Corvettes? Well, surely a guy as talented as Dutch, who designed the most beautiful and potent piston engine fighter aircraft ever conceived, would have driven a Corvette in the post war era - probably one with a FI engine.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

speaking of allison engines

i ran across a place about 15 miles from me that rebuilds allison engines and he has a dyno to test them. he also has a warehouse full of parts new and used for the 1710.

[Chuck S.]

Re: WHAT....

There is a real connection between Corvette and NAR. A division of North American Rockwell actually supplied the FRP body panels for Corvettes around the early seventies, but it was only because the original supplier of GM's fiberglass body parts was bought up by Rockwell just as North American was absorbed.

Wow, Duke, you know a lot of old aircraft lore. I believe Bob Hoover(?) was their test pilot during the P51 devopment...he went on to perform aerobatics at air shows in the sixties and later. His show was a PR deal for North American, and he performed in a North American twin-engine, high-wing biz jet called the Aero Commander(?) (would you believe it?). I saw him perform once at the Wright-Patterson AFB air show back in my youth (well, twenty-something); he could make that big airplane do incredible things. It was almost as astounding as seeing a biplane fly backwards.

[Duke W.]

Re: WHAT....

Rockwell became a true conglomerate in the seventies and eighties, (and they were a BIG IBM customer in that era), buying up disparate businesses when that was in vogue, but have considerably shrunk since the early nineties.

Thanks for reminding us about the Corvette body panel connection.

I've seen Bob's show and one simply cannot believe a verbal description of what he could do with an Aero Commander. You have to see it to believe it! AFAIK he is still with us and will turn 85 this year. He didn't join NAA until after the War. Wikipedia has a good synopsis of his career.

Dutch became CEO of NAA in 1948 and retired in 1960. He passed in 1962.

Duke

[Joseph T.]

We have a Winner

Dennis..you are right on!

I have a 1956 GM Film from Rochestor Products called Jet Ace..regarding the development of the new 1957 Ram Jet Fuel Injection and the film shows how the aircraft Turbo Jet works as a basis for the development of the Ram Jet FI.

Joe

[Chuck S.]

Must Have Been Dreamed Up By Advertising...

"...I have a 1956 GM Film from Rochestor Products called Jet Ace..regarding the development of the new 1957 Ram Jet Fuel Injection and the film shows how the aircraft Turbo Jet works as a basis for the development of the Ram Jet FI."

I have no idea why they used a turbojet film to illustrate something named "Ram Jet"...the two aircraft engines have nothing in common.

The turbojet has hundreds of precision parts rotating at high speeds with close tolerances. The "ramjet" is a flying stove pipe with spring loaded inlet doors on the front.

[Jean C.]

Bob's still kickin'

Bob Hoover was one of several individuals and aircraft crews inducted into the American Combat Airman Hall of Fame in OCT06 in Midland, TX during the CAF air show weekend.

See http://www.airpowermuseum.org/exhibi...hof/index.html for bios on the heroes that the CAF has honored from the inception of the ACAHOF. If you care to participate in a most memorable evening with some truly remarkable aviation heroes, attend the dinner in OCT07 that will honor another group of aviators that have made aviation history. My wife's uncle, Lt. Col. Sandy Sansing, USAF(Ret), was one of the honored inductees in OCT06. What a night.

Keep'em flying,
Charlie