what about "fake 327 C2's? - NCRS Discussion Boards

what about "fake 327 C2's?

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  • Bill S.
    Expired
    • January 31, 2007
    • 396

    what about "fake 327 C2's?

    there are probably quite a few BB C2's out there sporting SB's. if these cars are identified don't they desearve to re returned to what they originally are? my 66 conv turned out to be one. as a corvette lover i felt it my duty to give this car back it's heritage. i invested in all date coded parts and a complete engine restoration from classic engines and did it all right. turns out the 427 was blown in 1972 and for lack of money the service man owner put in a 327 it appears that pro team de BB'd the car in around 1988. i have pictures of the car as a BB from 1971 with 20k on it and documentation of all of this. if we are a restoration society do we not have the obligation to restore the car to what it was? or are cars like this not desearving of respect. first thing i did was can the fake KO's talk about a over done option! some how i knew it was not a KO car as i suspect most L72's were not. i now have nassau blue with B/w interior L72. all that see this car admire it, car lovers or not! i feel i am doing the hobby justice with this authentic restoration. few in Vermont have the opertunity to see a car like this let alone at the local diner every morning in the summer and fall.
  • Michael M.
    Expired
    • November 1, 2001
    • 411

    #2
    Re: what about "fake 327 C2's?

    Good for You Bill! Its funny my car [65 c2]was totally stripped so I could build whatever. I have spent thousands buying original power master cyl, telescoping columns etc to make the car be as original as possible but then didn`t like the chassis semigloss so painted it a high gloss black urethane. Several other personal perferences the same way. I`m happy with it that way. I made it a small block. Too many big blocks already. Its your car so you should fix it to suit yourself. Mike

    Comment

    • Howard K.
      Expired
      • November 11, 2011
      • 111

      #3
      Re: what about "fake 327 C2's?

      Congrats to both of you

      Comment

      • Dale Grahner

        #4
        Re: what about "fake 327 C2's?

        Dear Bill,What a refreshing attitude!!!!!Thanks for sharing.diz

        Comment

        • Terry D.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • May 31, 1987
          • 2692

          #5
          Re: what about "fake 327 C2's?

          Bill

          I guess it depends on what you end up doing with the car. To restore it to it's original configuration is great. To restore it with a repo engine then clain at selling time to be an original numbes matching car is something entirely different. I for one don't get into matching numbers as much as driving them and enjoying them for what they are.I would much rather be able to enjoy my driver then have a trailer queen, but hey to each his own. If a person can be happy with the satisfaction that they built a trailer queen, then so be it. I guess that's why there are so many different opinions, if everyone thought the same way what a dull world it would be. Just 2 cents from this old dude!
          Terry

          Comment

          • Jim R.
            Very Frequent User
            • June 30, 2001
            • 643

            #6
            Re: what about "fake 327 C2's?

            This is different, what you did was what we all should like to see done ,keep it real .Good job Billy Boy!
            JR

            Comment

            • Joe L.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • February 1, 1988
              • 43221

              #7
              Re: what about "fake 327 C2's?

              bill-----

              Any Corvette restored to its original configuration is not rendered a "fake" under any standards that I am aware of. However, a car that was an original big block car and restored as if it were an original small block might be considered by some as a "fake". Certainly, it would be if its original big block configuration were discerned in the NCRS or NCCB judging process.

              If someone restores or otherwise modifies a car to some configuration other than its original configuration, that doesn't automatically make it a "fake", either. I suppose that it becomes a "fake" if someone represents it as being originally configured that way. However, represented as a "clone", which is what it may be, it's not a "fake".
              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

              Comment

              • Bill S.
                Expired
                • January 31, 2007
                • 396

                #8
                too much hype on "thee" original engine

                joe, the reaon i posted it was all the discussion about how many C2 BB's are out there and that "all" have been found. i was just trying to point out that there are BB cars out there sporting small blocks and and it should be encouraged to return them back. i feel that there is way to much negative attitude for cars that do not sport "thee" original engines.i do not see this less important than "thee original paint" or tires or even oil if you want to go to that extream. many components are accepted as long as they have the right dates and part numbers. trans are not even judged!. the fact is engines blew, does that mean as soon as it did the car lost all its integrity? it is my understanding the car should be restored to as it was when delivered. using that standard then "anything" replaced since new makes a car not original. my point is i would like to see the hobby back off the original engine hype and get back to cars being restored with correct components with proper date codes and trim. respectfully,bill

                Comment

                • John M.
                  Expired
                  • January 1, 1998
                  • 813

                  #9
                  Re: too much hype on "thee" original engine

                  Bill,
                  Believe it or not I live in Vermont, too, and have a 67 BB convertible. It was born a yellow/black small block and is now a black/red BB. I had an NCRS Top Flight 66 and sold it to do the work on this one and this car has more of it's original parts than most Top Flights and was really a lot of fun to do. It's not a fake because of the admission above, it's just a beautiful Corvette. I would like to do another NCRS resto but the mid years are just too much $$ for me, so maybe my C3 will get a shot. Point is, to each his own and be honest about it.

                  Comment

                  • Chris Patrick

                    #10
                    Re: too much hype on "thee" original engine

                    the fact is engines blew, does that mean as soon as it did the car lost all its integrity?

                    I have been on here lurking for a long time, and I've seen this very comment tossed about several times. You can search the archives but it is hard to search for that phrase and get the many different variations that mean the same. If you could, you'd find it has been here a hundred times at least.

                    Two things I have noticed about this and original engines;

                    1. While NCRS puts emphasis on the original engine, it really doesn't have that much by way of points. It is possible to do very well in Judging with only a correct engine. (correct casting number and date)

                    2. The buying public is simple-minded and seize on short bits of information. As such, they see "NCRS = original" and "NCRS = original engine". This also comes out as "original engine = worth a lot --- non original engine = worthless".

                    So a car that lost its original engine is not worthless to NCRS, but it is worth far less to the buying public.

                    The insanity is that the cars that are the most desirable by the public are the very cars most likely to not have an original engine (the high performance ones).

                    Comment

                    • Chris Patrick

                      #11
                      Re: too much hype on "thee" original engine

                      Long ago, friends built the cars they wanted because either they didn't have the money to buy the factory one or the factory didn't make one like it or make that one anymore.

                      No one accused them of making fake cars.

                      With prices of $200,000 or so for a 435 hp car, why not build your own from a $30,000 driver? If you can't build one for less that $170,000, then you should have to buy an original.

                      I think these insane prices are going to hurt the original cars more than anyone knows. For every $200,000 car out there, someone can build a darn good likeness for half or a fourth. And they will.

                      Comment

                      • Joe L.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • February 1, 1988
                        • 43221

                        #12
                        Re: too much hype on "thee" original engine

                        bill-----

                        I've said what you're saying for MANY years. WAY, WAY too much importance is attached to "original" engines. I'm a configuration guy, NOT a "numbers" guy. Numbers are a PART of configuration but a VERY, VERY small part of configuration. The main emphasis in a RESTORATION should be on returning a car to its original CONFIGURATION. Any other part of the car that's been replaced with a non-original but otherwise correct part is fully accepted. But, for some reason or another, the engine (and, transmission) don't fall into this category. As a matter of fact, a LARGE number of components on many restored cars are not original to the car.

                        Notwithstanding the above, NCRS actually does place greater emphasis on configuration than "block stampings". It's my understanding that a car without its original engine, but otherwise correct, can achieve a top flight. That's how it should be.
                        In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                        Comment

                        • Bill S.
                          Expired
                          • January 31, 2007
                          • 396

                          #13
                          to joe's response

                          i am glad we are of the same mind set, i have grown to look forward to your post and have grear respect for you advise and input. bill

                          Comment

                          • Frank C.
                            Expired
                            • January 1, 1986
                            • 277

                            #14
                            Re: too much hype on "thee" original engine

                            Joe....what about the people that have a bonafide orignal? Sure you can say there is no such thing. If you show me a bonafide factory original, I'll show a you car with 4 flat tires a dead battery, leaky water pump and radiator, etc,etc, but don't bonafide original drive trains deserve some merit??

                            Comment

                            • Joe L.
                              Beyond Control Poster
                              • February 1, 1988
                              • 43221

                              #15
                              Re: too much hype on "thee" original engine

                              Frank-----

                              Yes, they do deserve some merit. They just don't deserve the level of merit, "prestige" and "value" that they often get.

                              NCRS judging standards do provide a "points reward" for cars with an original engine and transmission. More-or-less, I'd say it's ABOUT the right amount of reward for such. Perhaps, a little generous given the degree of original configuration that stamped numbers represent, but in the right ballpark.
                              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                              Comment

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