65 365 HP Coupe and F40 suspension

[Larry L.]

I doing a body off on my 65 and am getting ready to assemble the chassis for my 65. The goal is to build the perfect restoration. The manuals and order sheets say that there were no F40 suspension cars except with FI. I asked Mr. Dobins a long time ago about it and he said he thought there were some expecially if they were cars from a dealer such as Harry Mann.
I have a fragment of the window sticker - looks like a poor copy with the options on the car and half was ate by a rodent. The car was delivered to Harry Mann and it lists the F40 suspension. The differential does not have the heavy duty axel flanges. The bushings for the front sway bar were large - the bar was small. The springs in front had been changed and the rear had a 7 leaf spring. Car had been drage raced some time in the dim past. Is there any way to know how it should go back together. The path of least resistance is to put STD. parts on it and burn the window sticker fragment. I always liked the F40 cars because they set an 1" or so lower and rode like an ox cart but handled a lot better.

[Tom D.]

Keep the Sticker and F40 suspension *NM*

[Verle R.]

Re: 65 365 HP Coupe and F40 suspension

Larry,

I have a memory from 1965 of a friend who had a red 65 coupe, not FI, that rode like a log wagon. He would demonstrate how stiff the suspension was by driving one front wheel off a curb and it would hang in the air.

The car was a 396 car. Wish I knew where it is now.

Verle

[Jimmy G.]

Re: 65 365 HP Coupe and F40 suspension

You might check as I think F 40 was a FI and 396 only option????

[Joe L.]

Re: 65 365 HP Coupe and F40 suspension

Larry------

Chevrolet's "official" position on the matter is as described in the attached Chevrolet Order Guide excerpt, dated March, 1965. However, the fact that there were 975 cars built with F-40 in 1965 versus only 771 built with L-84 doesn't quite "square" with this. Of course, some of those built with F-40 were likely L-78-optioned cars (even though this copy of the order guide, published with the L-78 option listed, doesn't say that F-40 was available with L-78). In any event, there were quite a few F-40 cars built for 1965 and this probably implies that they were installed with other engine options besides L-84 (and, L-78).

The differential half-shafts would not be expected to be the cap-type HD. Those were part of the big block engine option; they had nothing to do with F-40.

All small block with standard suspension used a 3/4" front bar. With F-40, the front bar was 15/16".

[Larry L.]

Re: 65 365 HP Coupe and F40 suspension

OK - I have read the responses and that does not save me from taking a big hit on the suspension / shocks when the car is judged. Does the fragment of the window sticker carry and weight with the juges, especially if it looks like a copy. It has correct addresses, SN and more. The math certinally explains that ther were more F40 equiped cars than there were fuel cars and not every 396 had the F40 option.
I have the 15/16" sway bar, NOS GM bushings for the 15/16" bar, front springs, rear spring and shocks.
I really hate to take a risk, not to mention the work in changing it back if it doesn't fly. I need evidence of orig.cars made this way.

The engine is orig. but with a few internal modifications. Bored 0.060 over with torque plate. New TRW pop ups , balanced. ported and polished "461" heads, flow matched intake and exhaust manifolds, 4150 with venturi modified and corrected, new jets, a crane 30/30 cam with fater lobes.
A second engine was built, that was identical to this one - made a little over 400 HP with 4150 carb on the dyno. No headers just the 2 1/2 manifolds blowing into 30" pipes then into large collector tubes.

[John H.]

Re: 65 365 HP Coupe and F40 suspension

Larry -

In terms of being correctly-configured from a judging perspective, F40 was only available from the factory with L-84 or L-78; 771 L-84's were built, and 326 of them had F40 (F40AA). 2,157 L-78's were built, and 649 of them had F40 (F40AB). I'd think you'd take a hit for incorrect front and rear springs and shocks, and front stabilizer bar, if the car was presented for judging with F40 components on it.

[Jack H.]

Since...

the car's configuration is 'atypical' of standard production, expect judges to deduct for 'incorrect' suspension components. Flight judging (see the NCRS Judging Reference Manual) is based on typical factory production norms and the burden of proof is placed on the owner for situations where a car deviates from these norms.

Your paperwork IS an argument for the car's deviation and the Judging Reference Manual defines the process for an owner's right to appeal a judging call. If you are CONVINCED your car was originally factory equipped in a non-standard manner, I'd restore it that way and appeal the point....

But, expect to have the initial judging call go against you, read and understand the rules of the appeal process, and be prepared to exercise your rights. Further, prepare yourself to be calm, cool, collected when you take this action! It's not uncommon for owners to get emotional and argumentative and I can guarantee you that will 'color' the attitude of those decision makers you appeal to...

Being calm and rational in the appeal process (I restored it this way because that's how I found it {original pictures} AND the car had this documentation with it. I certainly wouldn't have intentionally restored it 'wrong' knowing what I know...) can be persuive.

Last, the appeal process has time limits associated with it. You MUST act within the specified time frame. In other words, don't let the score sheets flow to tabulations BEFORE you've initiated and concluded the owner appeal process.

Once the Flight score is tabulated, that's it (for THAT meet)! The only NCRS justification for changing a car's Flight Score once the tabulation process has been completed is a bona fide arithmetic error on the part of tabulations...

[Larry L.]

Re: Since...

All point are well presented. I guess it is time to trak down the owners of the car and see how far back it gets me. The window sticker is not the orig. but is a half there sheet of paper that looks like a a poor Xerox. The only thing I found was a business card under the drivers seat when I tore it down. As a vetran pack rat I keep everything and will see if I can find out some of its history.
I had been draging my feet so long that my better half said that I wouldn't get it done before I croaked. Now I will get busy and finish it.

Thanks for the input and we shall see you at Judging meet in the near future.

[William Holder]

Re: Since...

Hello Larry, My 68 435 427 had F 41 suspension and there were 2 large Green X's on the frame crossmember behind the rear differential unit. Did you see any markings like that when you tore down the car? If so I think that would help to document that the suspension you have is correct. I am not sure though if this applies to cars of your vintage.
Good Luck
Bill