Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

[John D.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

MH, Nice pic of the starter and solenoid but it may be from a prototype engine as I notice there is not overspray on the bell housing. If so the black bolt would appear colored in this pic. Another ding I got at Marlborough was that the judge said my bell didn't have enough orange overspray. Whew. It used to be all orange for the first resto 25 years ago. This time we refinished the bellhousing and it looked brand new. Then did a nice job painting the engine but didn't put more than say a 4 inch "arc" of overspray as didn't want to ruin the pretty aluminum. Got caught speeding though. Should have had DC hit it heavier. He wanted to but I didn't. Nice 9910 solenoid though. Can't believe RJ actually admitted to the world it's a 9910. What is this world coming to Michael. RJ is getting loose with the info. Must be the hi temps in the swamp making him weak. RJ we certainly appreciate your knowledge and are happy you are cutting loose with some good trivia. I love trivia. How about some nice pics of some 158's next RJ. I haven't been to the FL meet since 1998 as a vendor but might go this year as a spectator to meet some of you swamp guys. Really have enjoyed your friendship this past year and appreciate you help make my 63 one fine car with lots of rare original parts. Thanks so much, Your friend, John

[Michael H.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Look closer John. There IS overspray on the bolt. This particular engine was shot from an angle that nearly missed the bolt completely. It did hit the outer flats of the bolt head though. Also, note the lack of orange on the clutch housing in the area that would be unpainted if the gun were held forward of the parting line between the block and clutch housing. There are bare aluminum areas on the housing around the bolt head that clearly show the exact angle of spray. It is a bit unusual as most wound up with a shot from the area about even, or slightly behind, the parting line. This one didn't. If you study the pic, you will agree.

This was definitely not a pilot line engine/job. The pilot line clutch housings weren't painted orange at all. I have the entire print and it clearly shows the chassis on the normal chassis line, not the makeshift line at the other end of the building for pilot.

[John D.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Harry, It's 9910 my friend. RJ confirmed this but I already knew it before cause heard it from re LIE about source on chatter board. 9910 is the real deal Harry. Try and find one of those my friend. Now watch the restampers turn the poor 9 into an O. But there are other differences in the configuration between a 9910 and a 9919. Know cause I have both and compared them. My 9910 though is zinc plated. But it was "restored" and therefore easily painted. This issue on our cars of the paint, the zinc, the cad, the blackened, is a bit much you know. The same part received numerous treatments during production. Just like FI hardware. The split lockwashers on the midyears could be black phosphate, zinc, or cad. Could be serrated or smooth. But as far as looking for the same treatment throughout production it just wasn't so. Have proof from Rochester Products documentation. John

[John D.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Yeh Yeh Mikey, Maybe it had SOME overspray but I bet if it were judged today it would get a ding. Anyhow the pic was black and white. Maybe you have it in color though. I am studying the print I made as I type and it does appear though that there is a color change but it didn't rouch the bolt. So you win this time. You are correct and I am incorrect. Sorry, John Meanwhile it still would get a ding if I were judging your car. Jr.

[Michael H.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Here ya go John. Bigger shot of the entire clutch housing. You can clearly see where the orange stops and the aluminum begins about half way back. Also obvious is the lack of paint on the back side surfaces around other mounting bolt locations. The areas that appear white are actually aluminum. The bolt near the top also shows a good shot of color on the sides/flats. This wasn't the normal procedure but it wasn't all that uncommon either. If the spray gun were held forward of the block/clutch housing parting line, this is the exact spray pattern that results. The intended target was the cast iron block and what ever happened to hit the aluminum clutch housing was purely unintentional. I've seen a LOT of these just like this. I seriously doubt any judge would deduct for this, especially due to the fact that you can't get a good look at the back side of the bolt face to see that there is little or no orange. From an "in the car view", it would appear painted completely.

[John D.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Michael, Nice pic of the bellhousing. As you have noted it is not an exact science as some would like it to be. If the guy was sloppy and wasn't watching where he was aiming he got more coverage.(on the bell not the bowl) But some think the entire top of the bellhousing was painted. Your last shot though appears to have a lot of orange paint. I am not into the overspray but because of you and RJ and my restorer I gave in for the most part. Another thing that will grab you. My water pump by pass fitting is practically all orange and I got dinged because the "plating" was not typical. The part was first cad plated and installed. Was an original with the diamond logos. Had it forever. Anyhow DC painted the crap out of it when he sprayed the water pump (609). Before my DB days though the by pass hose, clamps and fittings would have had no overspray but when you and RJ posted the nice pics of all the orange we copied them. I noticed though that few of the cars at the show had much overspray on the by pass hose. State of the art resto is lots of orange overspray. Back to work, John

[Michael H.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

A judge has to have an open mind, and to have that, he must also have first hand knowledge of the procedures and results of actual assembly process. Some water pump fittings were nearly completely coated with orange, others showed small areas of zincad that were not coated orange. Same with the bypass hose. Some seemed to be painted completely, others showed small areas of unpainted black rubber. Knowledge and common sense are the most important ingredients that any judge can have. The judging guide is there to assist with details/data/numbers that would be difficult for anyone to remember on the judging field.

Absolute "back to day one" restoration isn't for everyone but for those interested, everyone here tries to provide the most accurate info possible. Twenty years ago, almost no one had paint on their bypass hose. (or exhaust manifolds) How times have changed!

[Harry Sadlock]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Michael, well said!!!!!!!

Harry

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Michael,
How come the starter bolt isn't tightened all the way up? Was it left loose for something to be attached once in the chassis, like maybe a battery ground?

[Michael H.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Exactly right Verne. The neg battery cable and a ground wire in the starter harness would soon be attached. This pic was taken as the engine was being installed in the chassis.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

And if the car had A/C and the battery was on the other side, the bat ground would be under a bellhousing bolt, right?

[Michael H.]

Re: Looking 4 help finding 1107242 starter!!

Pretty sure that's correct Verne. I'm far from an AC car expert. I always thought things like AC and power steering were supposed to be in Dad's Buick so I never spent much time researching all of the unique items involved.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Rarity

Just a tidbit: In the '63 model year Chevrolet produced a total of 294,534 327 equipped full sized cars domestically. I'll bet the majority of them were automatics, so I can't imagine why those little buggers are THAT hard to find.

Verne

[Verne Frantz]

If you have an agreeable NAPA dealer

near you who's willing to make returns, why not order a half dozen rebuilt starters. One might come in with a 242 case....
I've gotten some correct and dated master cylinder and water pump cores that way. Or better yet, make a connection to someone in the rebuilder's warehouse and ask him to scan the cores for the numbers of interest. I'm sure they're just lying there on the shelves.

Verne

[Joe L.]

Re: Rarity

Verne-----

That's exactly what I've been thinking all along. Since about 25% of those 63's were produced during the 3 month period in question, that means that about 75,000 starters were originally out there with that part number and those dates.