Caswell Copy Cad update

[Greg L.]

I tried my kit again on the weekend and again got mixed results. I set up the power supply as per the suggestions that I got from you all and the manual that came with the kit.

This is how it looked before I started. I set the voltage to 3.5 because 2 didn't seem to work...then again neither did 3.5. Bath temp was 112F.


This is it in the tank. Note the amps set at 3A and hardly any bubbles at all.


After one hour(Caswell say 1 hour for .001") this is what it looked like. The black inside is electrical tape to try and reduce the surface area.


Then I rinsed it off and wire brushed it and tried to polish it with white scotch brite but the results were quite poor. I should have taken a pic of it then but I wasn't really in a good mood at the time . Then I decided to try and "roll" it in the bath with it just contacting the bath just enough to bring the voltage up. I screwed a piece of copper wire to one of the screw holes in the housing and bent it so that it came straight out the middle so that I could turn it with my fingers. The lead was connected to the end of this wire and just spun on it as I turned the housing. This is what that all looked like. Note the higher voltage, a lot more bubbles and a much brighter housing!!


As you can see, I did manage to get it plated but I don't think that this is how it's supposed to work.

This next one was how I think it should work. Voltage was set to 2V and the bath was still at 112F. Note that the amperage is still quite high for a few washers and screws but it isn't maxed out on my 3A power supply and that there is slight bubbling. I actualy had to turn it down!


This was how they looked when I took them out after about 10-15 minutes.


This was how they looked after I rinsed them...I would say that they turned out they way they should.


So now I don't know what to think. It would seem to me that you need obvious bubbles to get a good plating job. All of the smaller items I have done that require me to turn down the power supply turned out really nice and did not require any buffing...just rinse and dry and that was it. Not quite sure what to think at this point...

One interesting thing happened tonight though as I was TRYING to plate one of the expansion tank straps. The strap was in the tank turning all dull gray when all of a sudden it started to bubble and fizz. I looked at the power supply and it had some pretty high numbers...don't remember what they were because it was kind of a blur as I went for the current knob to turn it down. These few second of fizzing actually blew away some of the dull grey and you could actually see some nice bright zinc on the strap. But when I went to turn the current back up nothing happened. I played with it for a bit and then realized something was wrong. I am getting NO current at all now and my 0-18 volt power supply now goes from about 6-21 volts! So I guess I need another power supply. It was an ebay one from a place in San Jose and came with a one year warrany so I'll see how good thier warranty is north of the border.

Despite not being able to plate any of the larger items it still is lots of fun trying to do this myself...just a little frustrating when it doesn't work the way the book says it should. That's where you guys come in though and help fill in the gaps.

So from what I have shown you all here, am I doing it right or not. I was using the bubbling action as a guide because that was when it produced the best results. If that is correct then something is wrong with Caswell's 1 amp/40 sq in formula because the tank strap is about 20-25 sq in and there is no way in he^l that my 3 amp power supply would come close to doing it. Any opinions, thoughts and suggestions are appreciated in my plating quest. Any thoughts on a good power supply too or was mine just a dud?

Greg Linton
#45455

[Jack H.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

3 VDC should be a good driving voltage for the Copy Cad chemistry. For strings of small fasteners, somewhere in the 0.5 amp range should get the process going (JUST starting to show bubbles).

You're using a white plastic bucket which makes it impossible to view the part as it's hung in the electrolyte (you can only view from the top down). I use a smaller tank made from clear glass. As you slowly crank the current up, you can SEE fluid flowing up/off the surface of the part to be plated looking at it sideways in the tank (kind of like smoke rising from a bed of coals). This will occur just BEFORE the onset of major bubble formation on the surface.

The first or second pix you showed of the wiper motor cover hanging in the plating bath DOES show bubble formation! But, a 3A driving force for a part that small is OVERKILL. My hunch is 2A or less should have done the job, but then you're using two anodes in a rather big tank...

Some of the 'funnies' you report suggest the power supply is either intermittent OR you're fighting poor ohmic contact at one or more electrical connections...

I'd refrain from using masking tape on parts you're plating as the acid in the electrolye is going to attach the glue and introduce stray organic residuals into the electrolyte. Use such only when you have to!

Sounds like, absent a hiccup here/there, you're getting there!

[Gerard F.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Greg,

I think you are doing OK with it. Does your power supply still continue to put out 0 amps. I think they may have a fuse or circuit breaker built-in, and you hit a temporary overload.

I think the motor housing as a whole was probably too big for your setup, but maybe not for your power supply. The power supply sees the total resistance across the tank and when you have double anodes, and a larger part you eat up a lot of power. The Caswell 1 amp/40 square inches is with a minimum voltage of 1 volt between the anode and the part being plated, not overall voltage across the tank. You could have some extra resistance in your connections to the plate or the part.

On the smaller parts, note the voltage showing on the power supply when the part just begins to effervesce, should be in the range of .75 to 1.25 volts, probably right around 1 volt. With the larger part, if you are below this voltage range you are not plating or plating very slow. The voltage between the anode plate and the part is the driving force which plates the part.

If you can't get the voltage up to the effervescence range, then the part is too large for the supply, or there is too much resistance of the tank or connections. Try this:

-Get the largest gage lead wires that will fit into your power supply
-Change the alligator clips to those battery charger type clips.
-Drill a hole in the anode plate and wire on a #10 copper wire or tap a stainless steel screw into the plate to connect to. (Keep the copper wire out of the plating tank)
-Flatten the ends of your cathode bar, and tap a sheet metal screw into the flattened ends to connect to.
-When you hang parts on copper wires from the cathode bar, make sure the bar is clean and shiny
-Make sure your anode is clean and shiny before each run

As you can see from the above items, the object is to reduce resistance and increase conductivity across the tank.

On your last run, I think you blew a fuse or circuit breaker or one of your connections sparked and opened the circuit. If you open the circuit or create an insulated contact point in the circuit, the volts will go up and the amps to zero.

On larger parts, you should have seen the mess I made out of trying to plate a carburator body even with a larger power supply. Came out terribly uneven, with no plating in the crevices. Just couldn't get enough "throw" with the mass of it. Wound up bead blasting the plating off, and dichromating it without plating.
(potmetal will take dichromate without plating).

If you are looking for another power supply, look for one with less voltage range and more amps, maybe with analog guages. (I don't trust the digitals but that's my preference.) I use a Kikusui 0-8 v/0-5 amp (8/5) lab supply. Also have a Kikusui 16/10.

Regards,

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Alan Drake]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad

Fun work!

Have been doing a lot of small parts, however did the hood latch,too.
Have not been able to get a bright finish out of the tank. Always have needed to buff out, but once done the parts look great. Used "brightener" but not much difference.

Also notice it seems to be recommonded that paltes be cleaned. How?

Thanks

[don22567]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Hi Greg, I just happened to be reading your thread and looked at your pictures. It looks like your parts are coming out very nice and I am interested in doing the same thing. I looked at Caswell's web site but I don't see a machine with their kits like you have there. Did you buy that from Caswell? Thanks, Don

[Mike M.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Caswell has the power supply I got one from them. It is on there web site.If you from Canada buy it from the Canadian rep it comes out cheaper. Mike

[Gerard F.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad

Alan,

I usually plan on buffing them out with a nylon wheel as they come out slightly dull. I think it has to do with an old plating mix. If it were up to Caswell you would mix a new batch or add more brightener.

I don't use the brightener because it is erratic and wears out. Never know when you want something to be dull zinc.

You might try upping your volts/amperage for bright, or plate some scrap part to clean out the plating mix. As you know, the zinc anode plates develop this white coating on them. I usually clean mine by dipping in muriatic acid(2 to 1 cut), neutralize in baking soda, spray off, dry off with a rag, and then wire wheel the plate to a shiny finish.

Thanks again Alan, for those convertible top photos.

Regards,

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Gerard F.]

Correction above

Zinc or Cad based potmetal will take dichromate without plating. Not all potmetal will take dichromate. If there is too much aluminum in the potmetal you may be stuck.

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Greg L.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Once again guys thanks for your help.

Yes my power supply is still toast but it looks as though I'll get warranty on it so all is not lost so far. They also gave me the option to upgrade to a larger one...any suggestions on how big I should go? I was thinking 20-30 amp but I still want it be controlable enough for a few nuts and bolt so I have to be carefull that I don't go to big...kinda like my camshaft dilemma

In the mean time I checked out the avionics shop at work last night and they have a 0-30v/3a power supply that I might be able to try as I would like to try your suggestions Jerry on reducing my resistance before I choose a replacement power supply. Jack you noticed that the housing was slightly bubbling in the one pic but actually those formed as I was "playing" with it...lowering it into the solution. After I took this pic I swished it around a bit so the bubbles dissipated and no new bubbles formed over the next half hour or so, so to me it was dead in the water so to speak. Maybe I should have let it run at a lower current and then buff it but I get the feeling from my hardware that if the current is right you will get slight but obvious effervescence and the piece will not require any buffing. I have had good luck with the brightener because my second hardware batch (a week after my first) came out dull and I couldn't figure out why until I realized that I didn't add any brightener. Added the brightener, replated and they came out perfect.

So for now I'm without a power supply but I have lots to try if I can snag the one from work for a few days.

Oh Don, as Mike says, Caswell does sell the power supplys...here they are. The prices are in US dollars.

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/rect.htm

When I needed one Caswell was out of stock so I bought mine off of ebay from a place in San Jose,CA and it cost about $100.00 Canadian including tax and shipping...mind you the one from Caswell might have lasted longer..who knows? When I say out of stock I mean the US site showed out of stock but I later found out that Caswell Canada had some...odd that one hand didn't know what the other hand had.

[Jack H.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

If you need more than 5-10 amps, you've gone commercial with the size of your tank and the jobs you're doing!

[Greg L.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

I would have to agree that 10 amps would be more than enough but I read a "review" on Caswell's site about thier new and improved copy cad formula and aparantly it takes a lot more power...like about 140 ma per sq". If I figure it out right, that is 5.6 amps per 40 sq" where as the old solution only needed 1 amp per 40 sq". Almost 6 times the power so that is why I was thinking of a 20-30 amp power supply for that day down the road when I have to buy some new solution.

Here is the link to the "review" if anyone is interested.

http://www.hogheaven.com/hobby/plating/zinc/zinc-II/index.html

I'm not sure how long the solution should last but if I can get a few years rather than a few months out of it I'll opt for a 10amp one for now and then upgrade in a few years when the solution wears out.

[Gerard F.]

Take a look at these

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kikusui-PAD-16-10L-Regulated-Power-Supply-16V-10A-2pcs_W0QQitemZ220037192723QQihZ012QQcategoryZ11772QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Greg,

Take a look at these two Kikusui 16-10's on ebay. If I didn't already have a 14-10 and 8-5, I'd bid on these. With the kikusui's you can connect them together and have one control the other for either double the amps or volts. That's up to 20 amps with both.

The manuals are available through the manufacturer over the net(I got one for my two kikusui's).

Just what you need for the new Caswell mix.

Jerry Fuccillo
#42179

[Mike M.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Greg if your in Canada Caswell has a supplier in Ontario. It's on there web site. It saves the pain of dealing with shipping across the boarder. I bought my power supply from him. Mike

[Greg L.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Thanks Jerry and Mike. I'll keep an eye on the ebay one but I already see that they won't ship to Canada....gotta love the "free trade" agreement .

Mike, what brand is the power supply that you bought from Caswell?

[Mike M.]

Re: Caswell Copy Cad update

Greg, Not sure on the brand, I'm not at home and can't check, but its the one that they recomended for there copy cad and have for sale on there web site. Its 3 amp. I see they have a 5 amp which I think I would get if I was buying one now. Mike