Tetraethyl (lead additive)

[Jerry Rasmussen]

Have a 54. Have been using aviation 100 octane low lead. Now harder to obtain. (The airport is not suppose to see it for non-airplane use). What experience has anyone had on the "Max Lead 2000" being offered by Jack Podell? Does it work as claimed? Would appreciate an e-mail from you if you have used it. Member #191.

[Joe L.]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

Jerry-----

I really believe that you're wasting your time, energy and money either obtaining aviation fuel or using a tetraethyl lead gasoline additive.

First off, 1954 Corvettes, if the engine is stock, have a compression ratio of 8.0:1. Even if the compression ratio has been raised over the years by a sucession of rebuilds and head surfacings, I seriously doubt that your compression ratio could be any higher than 9.0:1. So, the need for octane boost does not seem like an issue for you. 91+ octane pump gas ought to work fine; in fact, 87 or 89 octane might work ok. Like I've said MANY times before, if your engine does not evidence significant pre-ignition using a lower octane gasoline, then higher octane WILL DO YOU ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD WHATSOEVER. It's a TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY.

As far as the need for leaded fuel to prevent exhaust valve seat recession, I really believe that you have nothing to worry about for at least 2 reasons. First, and most important, you've been using leaded fuel(and highly leaded at that---100 LL aviation fuel contains 2.1 grams of lead per gallon). Your engine has plenty of existing protection that, without further use of leaded gasoline, will last you at least until your engine otherwise requires a rebuild. At that time you can have hardened exhaust valve seats installed if you wish.

Second, I seriously doubt that you are operating your engine at high power loadings for extended periods of time. Tests by the US Army and many others have shown that this is really the only type of service that requires exhaust valve seat protection provided by lead or other compounds.

If you're really nervous about this and still want protection from the remote possibility of exhaust valve seat wear, use a sodium-based lead substitute like CD2-Alemite brand which contains Powershield as the active ingredient. This particular product is concentrated, easy to use, and inexpensive. It will provide you with FAR MORE valve seat protection than you really need.

[dennnis]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

jerry I don't know the technical pro's and con's, but I can say this.I've run my 70 L-46 on a/v fuel since rebuilding(6yrs).Whenever I tried any type of pump gas the car pinged like crazy. It didn't matter to me that most everyone ran pump gas. I knew my car didn't run well on it.

Last year at carlisle I bought a case of max lead 2000. Stuff works great. Mix it with ultra. Car loves it. Kemco oil makes it (Lead supreme) under the 2000 label. Dennis

[David Van Weele]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

I have been using the lead for Podell for about a year now in my 211,000 mile '63 Z-06 with only 1 gasket so the C/R is 11.25 to 1. Prior to that I was using Cam 2 104 Octane at $4.00 per gallon. The car starts a lot easier the cost of the fuel is about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the racing fuel. Also the smell of the treated fuel is just like the old day when gas was gas.

[motorman]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

100L av gas i about 106 octane the way they rate auto fuel. this will keep it from pinging. i have gotten tetlead from gulf research back in the 60s and this stuff is very dangerous so i cannot believe that the stuff they sell now is real tetlead. we were told to use rubber gloves and never pour it in a closed area. a quart weight about 10 # if i remember right. it was a long time ago and my brain aint what it used to be. maybe i played with stuff like this too much.

http://clemz9@hotmail.com

[Bill D.]

Real TEL from Kemco Oil

Dennis,

A correction to your post. Yes, Kemco Oil does make Max Lead 2000 which is mixed in kerosene with limited octane potential. Jack Podell buys it from a distributor. Kemco also makes Lead Supreme 130 which is mixed in aromatic 100 for TWICE the octane boost potential. Lead Supreme 130 is also LESS expensive and available at Carlisle. Both products contain 59 grams of REAL Tetraethyl Lead per gallon. Which is better? For the racers out there, Kemco also makes RED-X racing fuel at 112 octane. It has better test stats than Cam 2 and VP fuels an holds 6 world speed records.

Wild Bill

http://www.kemcooil.com

[Duke W.]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

Some of my fellow grad students with the University of Wisconsin Engine Research Group were using tetraethyl lead (TEL) in their research circa 1969, and they always wore heavy rubber gloves and aprons when handling TEL. The trouble with TEL is that it can be absorbed directly into fatty tissue through your skin. For this reason, organic compounds of lead are much more dangerous than inorganic compounds like lead oxide. Bottom line: At least get some rubber gloves from the old grocery store when you handle this stuff. You don't even want to get any on your hands.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

Motorman and Duke-----

Tetraethyl lead in it's pure, concentrated form is HIGHLY TOXIC and can produce DEATH from even modest exposure due to skin absorption that Duke referred to. It is NEVER sold to the public in its concentrated form. In fact, due to its EXTREME TOXICITY, many laboratories cannot obtain it or other heavy metal, organo-metallic compounds.

Within the last year I read of a story about a woman researcher that died as a result of being exposed to TWO DROPS of an organo-mercury compound on an ungloved hand as a result of a "minor" laboratory accident. It took about 3 months for her death to occur and, even though the cause was known, there was nothing that medical science could do to save her.

When diluted by gasoline or another carrier solvent the toxicity of tetraethyl lead is greatly reduced. But, it's still VERY toxic stuff. Another reason that I think that we're all better off without leaded gasoline. That's true even for cars. As I've mentioned before, tetraethyl lead is great for octane boosting and great for exhaust valve seats, but bad for everything else in a car that it touches. And, there are other ways of increasing octane and protecting/preserving exhaust valve seats.

[Juliet P.]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

Joe, My morbid side is going to show here, but what kind of symptoms does it cause and what does it do to kill a person? ~Juliet

[Joe L.]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

Juliet-----

I'm certainly not expert on this subject, but the general symptoms of mercury poisoning of this type are neurological deterioration, tremors, palsy, severe abdominal cramping, diarrhea, vomiting, renal(kidney) failure, severe dehydration, and loosening of the teeth. In the case of the woman researcher I mentioned, she went into a 3 month-long slide in deteriorating health which included, as far as I know, all of the described symptoms.

Tetraethyl lead poisoning would have similar symptoms, although it might take a little more of the substance to be absorbed than in the case of mercuro-organics.

[Bill Braun #33186]

Re: Tetraethyl (lead additive)

Juliet,

Joe is correct. The poisoning case he mentioned occurred, I believe, with a methyl mercury compound that is often used in miniscule amounts as a positive control for classic neurotoxicity testing. Although this molecule is different from the TEL discussed in this thread, the symptoms of typical heavy metal neurotoxicity are the same. It is very nasty stuff that doesn't belong in (or on) the hands of shade-tree chemists.

Bill