More about Fire Extinguishers

[Everett Ogilvie]

It's time I get a couple myself. Read the earlier threads regarding CO2, dry chemical, halon. Been talking to the equip guys here at work on our Emergency Response Teams and some guys that used to be on fire crews. Gas type extinguishers (halon, CO2) displace the oxygen, but may not remove the source of ignition (spark, hot glowing steel, etc.) so that when the halon or CO2 goes away, the flame CAN come back, especially if fuel like gasoline is still there. Dry chemical can prevent the flame from returning, but can be a mess.

Here are my questions; what does NASCAR use? Looks like dry chemical? I have heard that Indy uses water types, to tie up the methanol fuel used, to not let that fuel source re-ignite. Our cars use gasoline, so it seems the evidence points to using dry chem types, IF we are concerned about the flames coming back. One fire crew guy said they tested halon, CO2, and dry chem on oily rags, and the only one that would put them out was dry chem... Looking for information here please, thanks.

[Terry M.]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Everett,

This is hard decision because so much depends on source of fire. In our cars could be gasoline, electrical or plastic. Each will have a better material for extinguishing fire, so there is no one answer.

I believe Halon is in limited supply and may no longer be manufactured. It is from the same family of chemicals as Freon.

Best answer likely would be one of each, but that may not be practical.

Terry

[Bill Braun #33186]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Terry,

You are correct - Halon is being phased out and is already banned in many countries. At least in those countries interested in reducing the hole in the ozone layer...

Bill Braun

[Terry M.]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Bill,

There is significant debate as to reality of that hole, but the industrialized countries will all pay to eliminate, or attempt to eliminate it, while third world continues to pump out materials that are alleged to cause it. International politics sucks, but this is not the place to debate that, and I probably should not bring it up.

Interesting ball we all travel around on and in spite of our focus on Corvettes there is a much larger picture.

Terry

[Mike S]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Everett -

Fire extinguishers are categorized, in part, by the type of fire they can effectively extinguish. Type A extinguishers are for ordinary combustibles, such as wood and paper. In our case, perhaps carpeting, cardboard, headliners, etc. Type B, flammable liquids such as gasoline. Type C, electrical fires.

Most dry chemical extinguishers are rated ABC, which means they are effective on all three types of fires we could encounter in our cars.

Fire extinguishers are also rated as to effectiveness. This is typically a function of size. The extinguisher I carry in my '66 roadster is a Kidde dry chemical unit rated 1A 10BC, containing 2.5 pounds of monoammonium phosphate. It will be far more effective than any other type (CO2, Halon, etc.) for the fires I might encounter.

These ratings are clearly marked on all extinguishers.

Hope this points you in the right direction.

Mike S #33053

[John M.]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Everett, your comments about CO2 and halon are dead-on the only extinguisher that is really aplicable for all fires is an ABC dry chemical unit. Yes, the do make a mess if you have to use them but that is far better than the the alternative. About the only fire that a dry chemical extinguisher will not put out is a magnesiun fire but if we all have our correct wheels on that should not be a problem. Halon and CO2 both work onthe principal of depriving the fire of oxygen and work well only in calm winds or indoor conditions,CO2 also acts to lower the temperature below the point of combustion due to it's change of state. The old halons that we have used for years have been phased out and are only available through the reclaim market , but if you want a halon extinguisher then there are new non CFC halons on the market that work as well as the old CFC versions. John Mc Graw

[Bill Braun #33186]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Terry,

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that international politics indeed sucks, and if all of the world leaders spent more time in their garages tinkering with Corvettes, it would be a better place to live. On the other hand, Joe Lucia would probably have to worry about being invaded for his collection.

BTW, a Corvette show is coming up later this year here in Switzerland. Would you be interested in some photos for the Restorer? Let me know and I'll see what I can arrange.

Bill Braun

[John V.]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Halon extinguishers are still being made as a second generation type of halon. We use these extinguishers in the closed engine compartment of a boat with a self-actvated heat sensor. They are very reliable, but also very expensive ($125+) when compared to dry chemical type, and again the compartment is closed so the halon can do it's job. Any marine supply store would carry both self- activated or the hand held type.

[Terry M.]

Re: Restorer Photos

Bill, Absolutely photos of the meet. I can use photos of meets anywhere in the world, so long as the photos are of Corvettes - no doubt most members would prefer photos of stock Corvettes, but any will do.

I think most would appreciate a brief story on the meet too. After all most of us will not get there in person.

Terry

[Larry Colvin (#31730)]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

Halon was very big in the electronics and boating realms (I still have one in my boat). Boat engines operate in a very enclosed space and (aside from the mess) a big advantage was driving out the oxygen in that enclosed space and (due to the enclosure) there was some restriction to fresh oxygen being drawn back in and thus an opportunity for things to cool off a bit. It was virtually the sole material used in the automatic, inside engine compartment extinguishers.

There IS a replacement for it which has been coming put recently which would have a lot of the same characteristics but not the ozone-threatening downside, and I am sorry I cannot think of the name. It has been showing up in the boating catalogs and has been pushed by the device manufacturers (Kidde, etc.) as a replacement. A big downside to the dry chemical, beside it's obvious mess, is also the corrosiveness of the dry material.

[Doug Flaten]

Re: More about Fire Extinguishers

I would recomend the dry type multi-purpose types. I think the mess of the dry chemicals will be the least of your worries. Lets face it, if you have a fire, you are going to have to clean up a mess of burned wires, and smoke damage anyway. As was mentioned Halon is not readily available. It is not like we have high dollar electronics or circuit boards on these machines to protect. I think the big push for Halon in computer rooms is so you don't contaminate undamaged neighboring equipment with the dust. Get the biggest one you think you can carry without sacrificing your luggage compartment. You will be amazed at how inadequate a small fire extinguisher is. I took an old small one that I had in my trunk to a fire training safety meeting at work and was amazed at how quickly it discharged and how small the fire would have to be in order for it to be effective. Anything is better than nothing.