68-72 Tonawanda Plant overspray......again.

[Greg L.]

Well I don't know if this will be another log on the fire or the water that puts it out but I thought it was worth sharing.

I didn't realize that there was any debate in regards to whether or not the exhaust manifolds were originaly painted untill the thread of last week. I just assumed that they were all painted as on the C2s and in the 69 sales brochure. I found these pics so I thought I'd post them to see what you all think...were they or were they not painted....hmmm.

It's too bad that they are in black and white but seeing as I'm not trying to show and actual color but rather a difference in colors, I think they will serve the purpose.

The first pic is in late 69 and you can clearly see that the small block's cast iron exhaust manifold is in high contrast and much darker than the chevy orange engine. From what I understand it is commonly accepted that these manifolds were unpainted, natural cast and the pic appears to confirm that.


The second pic is sometime in 1970(I would guess very early 1970 due to the chrome valve cover) and you can clearly see that the big block's exhaust manifold has little if any contrast to the chevy orange engine. Now I know that it's not a good picture but this would have me thinking that this exhaust manifold is the same color as the head...chevy orange. I also don't see any mask lines as the manifold seems to be uniform in color.


It's too bad that they are not in color but they are good evidence.

Pic 1 shows a dark manifold that is in high contrast to the painted engine so this would be a good "base line" for comparing the color of natural cast to orange in a black and white photo.

Pic 2 shows a manifold with no obvious contrast to the painted engine so I would say that it's the same color as the engine and seeing as the whole manifold looks the same, I would have to say that it is all orange as well.

What are all your thoughts...were they natural, painted or masked?

Greg

[Joe L.]

Re: 68-72 Tonawanda Plant overspray......again.

Greg------

I've examined these photos before. The first photo (pic 1) is a small block. Small blocks circe 1969 did not have painted manifolds. The manifolds were installed after engine painting.

The second photo is actually a 1970 model. However, it is a big block. There's no way that I could say one way or the other if the manifolds were painted, or not, from this picture. The fact that it's black and white and the graininess of it make it indiscernable.

[lyndon sharpton]

Re: 68-72 Tonawanda Plant overspray......again.

the #2 pic has contrast, and is a early 71 car. no paint on that manifold. I have seen low mile 454 cars with LS-5 and the hose to water pump from manifold was painted.

[Dick W.]

Re: 68-72 Tonawanda Plant overspray......again.

I will find my copy of the memo that I posted reference to. I have never seen a completely painted big block manifold on a '68 up. I have been fooling with these cars since they were new. I have seen a thin line of paint on the mating edges of the manifolds, as would have happened if the mask was not fitting properly.

I have judged Bow Tie since it's inception and have seen cars with as low as 4 miles.

[Kent K.]

What are we surmising?

Are SB exhaust manifolds painted with the engine?
Are BB exhaust manifolds painted with the engine?
Just looking for some clarity and what does the JG say?
Regards,
Kent #6201

P.S. Black and white photos sometimes make it appear as though raw cast iron is the same shade as some reds, a medium monochromatic gray. Actually it's the other way. Reds can render gray to almost black in B&W photos depending upon the film and development process. Just my $0.01/2.

[Terry M.]

Re: What are we surmising?

Kent --
1968-1972 SBs built at Flint were painted before the exhaust manifolds were installed -- and that is what the TIM&JGs say.
1968-1972 BB is less clear. The judging guide(s) state(s) that Tonawanda personnel have told us that the BB were painted before exhaust manifolds were installed, but evidence from original cars seems to indicate otherwise.

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: 68-72 Tonawanda Plant overspray......again.

Greg,

Any chance you can get me a top quality scan of these images? I would like
to have them analyzed ( grayscale ). I have to say that the second image
sure appears to indicate that the passanger side exhaust manifold is painted
orange. If you look at the back of the block in this same general vacinity
( at the base of the rt. cylinder head ), the colors seem to be very close.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: 68-72 Tonawanda Plant overspray......again.

Here's a picture of a '66 big block about to meet it's body. You have to look in the lower left corner of the photo. I hope this helps answer the question about '66 Tonawanda big blocks at least.
Verne

[Michael H.]

Excellent Pic

Thanks Verne.

That's EXACTLY what I've been hoping to find for many years. It clearly shows the manifold heavily coated in orange. I've been whining about this for at least two decades and finally we have some proof !! Hopefully, this will end once and for all the debate about how much paint was on these things. It was NOT a mist coat. The outer surface and both ends were seriously blasted with orange.

I still don't know about 68 and newer though. Wish we had a puic like this for C3.

[Verne Frantz]

You're welcome...

I'm glad I was able to help. I had no idea there was such a debate over that detail. It's too bad the cameraman wasn't back a couple more feet. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures like that from the C3 era.
The pictures I have are under contract with GM Archives for a specific use only (for a seminar that was given last July), so I have to ask that it doesn't get reprinted anywhere. I probably broke a rule by posting that one, but I felt it was for a good cause. (and non-profitting).

I would bet that GM Archives has plenty of photos from the C3 era, and if contacted, a similar contract could be made perhaps for a seminar or use in the judging guidelines, etc.

Verne

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: You're welcome...

OK!

That's a great suggestion. Is there any way the NCRS can contact GM
( Chevrolet ) and ask for permission to view/post more images like this
one? Just a thought....

Steve

[Steve Antonucci]

Re: Excellent Pic

Michael,

That exhaust manifold really looks like the paint was applied
in a deliberate manner - huh?

Steve

[Michael H.]

Re: Excellent Pic

Yup, sure does Steve. The worker never stopped moving the gun and never took his fingers off the trigger as he was covering the side of the cyl head. One shot from end to end with paint pouring out of that nozzle all the way. Actually, the manifold runners received more color than the cyl head itself. Certainly not the way most restorers would do it today but it would be absolutely correct this way.

They sure look good after about 15 minutes of running when most of the orange on the runners turns black, leaving orange at the flange and some areas of the runners.

Just my opinion but I think glass beaded and clear coated manifolds on a 65-67 big block look like they belong on a hot rod, not a restoration.

[David M.]

Re: Excellent Pic

That would mean that there should be significant shadow under the manifolds? Interesting. I sure would like some if not all available photos for restoration work. I'm having a hell of a time with a 68, 442. Seems 68s a one year wonder GM wide!

[Verne Frantz]

Re: You're welcome...

Steve,
You should have a private email with the contact information to GM Archives to arrange your own contract for any photos they have. Feel free to relay that info to anyone who is willing to take the lead to procure that information, as I have done for the passenger car side of my hobby interest.
I hope the contact serves you, the NCRS and the hobby well.

As you said, "it's all about the details". For me the phrase is: it's all about accurate history. It doesn't matter what side of the hobby fence your car is on; GM will never reproduce cars like the ones we cherish today. There are so, so many great cars that have a profound place in history. We should all be more unified in our efforts to preserve their history.

Verne