NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

[Garry E.]

A quick question for those who might know..... What standard of authenticity does Bloomington Gold use in evaluating cars? Do they use the same judging standards as NCRS or do they a similar/but different set of guidelines?

Just curious..... Thanks

Garry

[Dave F.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

Garry,

If you go into the archives (April 2005 - Presnt) and do a search on "Bloomington" you'll see some of the answers I got when I asked the same question.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be a way to bring up the whole thread, and I can't even link you to any of it. This appears to be a major drawback to this forum software, but maybe I just don't know how to use it correctly.

-Dave

[Jack H.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

They leave originality/condition judgment calls exclusively to the personal knowledge of the judges they hire. About 50% of those who judge at NCCB are senior NCRS judges. NCRS is the only organization doing factory concours Corvette judging that has published guidelines for the judges to refer to (our Technical Information Manual and Judging Guide books), but still these books are only GUIDES to supplement the judge's personal knowledge...

[Michael W.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

Bloomington evaluates and certifies cars for 'authenticity'? Yikes!

[Michael H.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

Mike,

I think that would be the case for both organizations.

[Joe L.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

Jack-----

That's fine. However, the judges should make every effort to ensure that their "personal knowledge" gets into the judging guides. There should be no "secrets" when it comes to this. As I see it, this is one of the, if not THE, biggest problem in this hobby.

[Michael H.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

I think "getting the knowledge into the judging guides" is probably a bigger problem. Some of those manuals are carved in stone and are not correctible.

[Patrick H.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

Agreed.

But, on the flip side, if the Guides contained "everything" we know, they would be a LOT larger.

It's a fine line to walk...

Patrick

[Michael H.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

I always felt that the JG's should be a tool for people that were restoring cars but if judges need this info on the field, they shouldn't be out there. I always felt that the judge should well know his product and other than a reference for numbers, there should never be a need for a book. Especially if there are errors in it.

[Michael W.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

I don't think NCRS certifies anything as being 'authentic'. Perhaps this was just a poor choice of words on the part of the original poster.

[William C.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

There is a disclaimer on the back of every NCRS Flight award to the effect this is not a "certification of authenticity"

[Roy B.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

""I think "getting the knowledge into the judging guides" is probably a bigger problem. Some of those manuals are carved in stone and are not correctable.""

You hit that nail on the head this is where having a original Corvette, old timers and real knowledgeable people have those argumentive discussions .

Another is when a item is not in the JM some knowing judges still take points off when they know it's not correct. I have always added many notes when judging peoples Corvette to alert people what they need to find to replace or just box it so when the JM is again revised they have it on hand. Now that's only on what I think I know is right. I don't see any other way to change things by some one that is a no body " powers to be and Politics " It's dangerous to say this , people think I'm against NCRS (WRONG) I'm repeating what I hear from to many members

[Mike E.]

Re: NCRS and Bloomington Gold Judging Standards

I'll say it again, as one who has participated in a number of judging manuals, including heading up the teams on several:
There is a major difference between Getting the "knowledge" into the judging guides vs. getting "opinions" into the judging guides.
The guides are not carved in stone. However, there are many people who, rather than spend the money to correct something on their car, would rather complain about the manuals. As the KNOWLEDGE changes, the manuals change. As opinions come and go, the manuals remain the guideline. One car does not a manual make, or change--it simply adds to the input-some good, some not.

[Jack H.]

Similar disclaimer on NCCB certificates... *NM*

[Jack H.]

Judge's knowlege...

"I always felt that the judge should well know his product and other than a reference for numbers, there should never be a need for a book."

Most would agree with you in a 'perfect' world, but unfortunately the world isn't perfect. Each chapter of NCRS has an obligation under its charter to conduct judging meets at least annually and these are open to any/all members of NCRS. At a given meet you may NOT have the sufficient body count of judges expert in a given model year.

Consider recently when we opened the doors to judging C4 cars. By definition, for the first year or more, NOBODY was really skilled in this 'art'...

Consider when we start up a new chapter (especially remote ones like the UK and Australia + there'll be more)... Under these circumstances, almost nobody has a depth of judging experience--it has to be learned via OJT apprenticeship and the help of a FEW more experienced judges willing to dig into their pockets for the travel expense and devote the personal time.

Now, when it comes to a BIG, well attended, event like an NCRS National Convention or NCCB's Bloomington Gold meet, there IS a critical body count and team leaders, in both organizations, really do try to pick their staff personnel from the most learned.

But, there are bona fide situations where it's a 'chicken & egg' situation and judges perform their tasks on a best efforts basis. Typically, they admit their ignorance, give the benefit of the doubt to the car/owner, and will make notes vs. deduct points in areas that are grey.