Clear coat paint. Judges???

[don 42616]

Hi Guys,
My 66 has a beatiful fairly new clear coat paint job. Naturally I recieved a full deduction. 85 points. The judge at that time (2 years ago) said that I should steel wool door/hood jambs. I can do that BUT rest of the car is also very glossy. I wouldn't touch any other part of paint but jambs.
Can some knowledgeable paint afficiando give me ideas? So if I use elbow grease on jambs will body paint still cost me??? Many thanks for past & future help. I deeply apreciate your time. Don

[Ron Hambrecht]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

Don, I just went through the same thing. I lost 85 points that cost me a top flight. I was told to use steel wool on the jambs, and hood deck to dull them. Then I had a few people say dont do that, it will wreck the paint. So, I found out that the corvette shop I use has done this using a paint dulling mix. I just got my car back, and am having it judged in early April.

[don 42616]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

Hi Ron,
I asume the "dulling mix " was used only on Jambs. Do you by chance know what he used ? I wonder if it was a solvent or acetone?? I am still concerned about the body shine. If it is too glossy compared to orginal. Don

[Ron Hambrecht]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

Don, it was used on the jambs, and hinge side, as well as the hood ledge. County Corvettes did the work, and they have their own mix, so I am not sure what's in it.

[Gene M.]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

A clear build up on top of the color coat, be it sanded dull or shine will not fool NCRS judging for correct paint in the door jamb area. There will also be too much difference compared to other areas of the car since the clear fills gaps and grooves where the panels meet. Original lacquer is thin and shows lines much crisper than a clear coated urethane job. I would suggest leave the urethane paint alone and enjoy it for what it is.

[Michael H.]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

I agree Gene. Another point is the fact that many areas of the door jamb original lacquer paint are not dull at all, but quite shinny. However, they look nothing like BC/CC. I know of no way to make BC/CC look like correct lacquer but I've heard that some have sprayed some chemical on the jambs to dull the coating somewhat. It would at least be in the direction of correct, although still not near a factory lacquer look.

As far as the body color, I have never heard of any way to make it look like lacquer.

[Tom R.]

Re: Judges Retreat & Paint Seminar

Have to give a plug to the recent judges retreat and the paint & fiberglass seminar delivered by two of our finest master judges on this topic. I would suggest a review of the "new" paint guidelines so they are fully understood...the appearance must look original and therefore even if CC...if the appearance "looks" original the owner gets the benefit of the doubt.

The problem is that knowledgeable lacquer painters who elect the BC/CC system can use techniques that will make the paint qualify under the NCRS scoring system. The problem is that many painters are neither knowledgeable of either these techniques or the NCRS Scoring System and therefore put out a product that fails the NCRS standard for paint.

So the problem being described here is that a technique was used that failed to capture the texture of lacquer and than was sealed with clear coat. The inherent problem of texture may never be corrected unless paint is removed and repainted which I'm sure is not an option nor advised. Thus the owner is limited to the techniques they can use to get the clear coat layer to return to an original appearance...described in the above paragraphs. It is possible to reduce the full deduction to only the 20 percent standard deduction but than owners are encouraged to read the new paint guidelines and share this with those they've hired to degloss the clear coat. Otherwise, knowledgeable judges will continue to deduct because the paint is an obvious clear coat and owners will return a third time in an attempt to earn the level of achievement they sought for their vehicle.

The point...that's what I learned at the judges retreat!

[Jimmy J.]

How does the car owner prove he has lacquer

when the judge thinks its BC/CC. Jimmy

[Louis Kolb]

Re: How does the car owner prove he has lacquer

The issue is not so much that it's Lacquer or BC/CC or whatever, but how it appears compared to how it left the factory. The finish was not perfect then and should not be now. Making the finish better than the day it was produced can/will have negative judging results. It's the judges responsibility to explain to the owner why points were deducted.

[Alan Drake]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

So I need to dull my lacquer paint down on the door jambs, ie make it look like a BC/CC job, correct?
The door jamb area on my car was always shinney, however many cars did a have a duller finish. Expect we are all going to far with this stuff and I would expect that the way a car left the factory and how it is NCRS judged will slowly part, since it the judging that counts, right.
Sorry All, but let's keep life reasonable. I know I'm going to pay for this.

[Roy B.]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???Aland

I'v been paying out for years , so you can send your payment money to me.Ha!

[Michael H.]

Re: Clear coat paint. Judges???

Actually, I like to think that it's the exact opposite Alan. The judging should be going toward the condition that the cars left the plant, not away from it. As time passes, we learn more and more about how to duplicate different finishes that a new Corvette would have had when it was new. In the 70's, most, or probably all, of the "show cars" that toured the circuit had chrome everything and perfect paint/body. As the years passe, people began to look more closely at original cars and tried to duplicate the minor flaws and areas that were less than perfect. Today, 30 years later, most are now trying very hard to come to a level of restoration that does indeed match that of a new car of the era, good or bad.

I agree, the new paints and primers available today have presented quite a challenge to restorers that want an original factory look but I'm sure there will be solutions to the problem.

There are sources for the original lacquer paints today and I would definitely pay the money for these paints if I were going to repaint my car. At the very minimum, I would use a single stage poly without the clear coat. It wouldn't be correct but at least it wouldn't have that "dipped in clear" look.

Someone posted a source for lacquer here on this board just a few days ago. If I remember correctly, it was in California but I don't remember the name.

[Don Izzo]

Re: How does the car owner prove he has lacquer

Although I have never participated in judging a car, and don't know if this is ever done when judging, when I had a paint shop painting Harley show bikes with acrylic lacquer, a little dab of white rubbing compound on a rag would when rubbed on the paint, transfer some of the color onto the rag. Clear coat which ,we applied over murals and graphics would not. Suppose this is one way to tell, however any single stage paint be it urethane, enamel, or acrylic lacquer would do the same.

Don

[Roy B.]

Re: How does the car owner prove he has lacquer

lacquer can be had here in my town in Northern Ca.

[Calvin C.]

Re: How does the car owner prove he has lacquer

Where in Northern CA, and what brand. I may want to get some.

cal