Engine VIN Pad question and comment

**Rick S.** · February 19, 2006, 06:10 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Which "1" is upside down? If it is the last one, I would think it would most likely be just human error when the worker inserted the "1" and not detected. If it was the first or second "1", I would think the error may have been caught and corrected in a short time. Plus, a history of this error might have been noted by Al Grenning in his stamp pad library. But this is just speculation on my part.

**steve wallach** · February 19, 2006, 07:24 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

It's the second "1" out of the 3 of them, about the middle of the stamp.

Steve

**William Liddle** · February 19, 2006, 07:26 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

It's not possible to insert a slug into the holder upside down. The slugs have a 1/2 round indentation on one side that keys them into the holder. You could leave the key out and place a stamp upside down in the holder but as soon as you turned it over the slugs would fall out. The only possible reason for an upside down stamp would be if it were stamped separately and incorrectly or if a slug was manufactured upside down. I've never seen a character manufactured in this position but I guess it may be possible.

**Dick W.** · February 19, 2006, 07:47 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

If you catch Al Grenning at a meet, ask him to show you this anomalie in his library

**steve wallach** · February 19, 2006, 07:56 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

The VIN stamp on my pad is too perfect to have been done by hand, the spacing and line up of the digits would have been impossible to have been done by hand.
I don't know about a "slug" being manufactured upside down, but the "1" is clearly upside down. I think we have all heard of various anomolies, and I suppose it's possible a line worker lost or left out the pin that held the slugs?

Does Al Grenning have a website or a book?

Thanks again,

Steve

**William Liddle** · February 19, 2006, 08:04 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

I'm sure that an upside down character on a Schmidt slug is a possibility but I've been using the same brand for 38 years and have never seen one. The fact that it occurs in the middle of a group is really strange. If it were just placed in the holder upside down, then all of the characters following the inverted slug wouldn't be keyed in. If it is an authentic stamp pad then the only possibility would be a manufacturing error in the slug. I guess a "1" would be the best choice for slipping by the inspectors.

**steve wallach** · February 19, 2006, 08:04 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25451&goto=nextnewest

According to this thread, Al Grenning shows several examples of original pads with the "1" upside down, must have been slugs made wrong?

Steve

**steve wallach** · February 19, 2006, 08:06 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Someone said in a thread I just read that "8"s were most common and "1"s weren't uncommonly upside down either...

steve

**Rick S.** · February 19, 2006, 08:22 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Al's email is algrenning@aol.com

**William Liddle** · February 19, 2006, 08:24 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

I guess leaving the retaining key out intentionally is a possibility but that would mean that the slugs would have to be held in the holder with the other hand while it was being positioned on the pad. It wouldn't be a big problem at the end of the shift but I wouldn't want to spend the better portion of a day doing it. You could use anything that is close to the correct diameter and length for a key. A piece of heavy wire, dowel rod, drill bit or even a nail will work in a pinch.

**steve wallach** · February 19, 2006, 08:30 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Thanks!

Steve

**William Liddle** · February 19, 2006, 10:26 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Steve, that's the only answer if Schmidt stamps and holders were used as I have been told. There are other manufacturers of stamps and holders that use a different method of retaining the stamps. I have seen holders with a set screw on one end that applies pressure to the entire assembly of stamps and with this variety, inverted stamps would be seen with regularity. The fact that inverted characters are pretty rare seems to hint at a holder with a locking device that doesn't allow the slugs to be inverted, such as the Schmidt holders. I would imagine this is one of the reasons for the sole use of the Schmidt style. An inverted character suggests to me that it was a manufacturing mistake in the slug or a restamp with another brand of holder.

**Michael H.** · February 19, 2006, 11:16 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Bill,

I agree. I believe the reason a Schmidt tool was used is the fact that the pin can be removed and characters changed in just seconds compared to the amount of time that would be required with a design that used a set screw. The set screw style would most likely be used for jobs with much lower volume and character change frequency. I know that the Schmidt tool was used at the St. louis plant at least since the early 60's, and most likely in the 50's too.

The inverted 1 and 8 characters on the slugs sounds possible, although I would think quite rare. I've heard of stamp pad numbers with one character inverted but I've never seen one.

**Jimmy B.** · February 21, 2006, 08:02 PM

Re: Engine VIN Pad question and comment

My 67 also has an upside down 1 on the engine pad. Gary Bishop took a picture with his digital camera when he was visiting me here in the UK last year. I didn't even know it until he e-mailed me the picture and there it was on my computer screen.

I understand that Mr. Grenning addressed this particular stamping at his seminar last year at the National.

I will contact Gary and see if he can post the picture if any of you are interested.

Engine VIN Pad question and comment

Engine VIN Pad question and comment

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