Driveline in St Louis

[Mark Milner]

Learn to quote Gary

As you previously said "everything NCRS does should be free".

No where did I say that. I said nothing was free.

HOWEVER, what I did mean is that most organizations do not require a person to pay double fees for an event. NCRS does.

You have to pay a registration fee and a judging fee to have a car judged.

You have to pay a registration fee and a vendor fee for a vending spot.

Why not just one fee?

I'm not badmouthing the people who work. If you feel guilty, then what are you hiding. What I am saying is do not confuse NCRS with a club. It isn't. It is a business.

Your independent NCRS chapters are more or less a club, but the parent organization, NCRS, Inc. is a business.

Businesses can trademark items. Groups and individuals can't. They can copyright, but they can't trademark unless it is a item of commerce. It is part of trademark law, an item must be for sale in commerce to be trademarked.

If you check, NCRS does have a lot of trademarked items. For example,

Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Educational services, namely, providing incentives to car owners to demonstrate excellence in the field of automobile maintenance as per defined criteria for certain automobiles that have been preserved or restored to the manufacturer's original physical and performance specifications through the issuance of automotive enthusiast awards. FIRST USE: 19760101. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19760101

Owner (REGISTRANT) National Corvette Restorers Society, Inc. CORPORATION MICHIGAN 6291 Day Road Cincinnati OHIO 452521334

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=3ipj6d.2.2

NCRS Flight Award trademark info

[Mark Milner]

You are going down the wrong path

I'm not here to complain about NCRS. I am here to remind the members this is not a club like Corvette Club of ____ County or _____ Corvette Club. (fill in the county or town).

This is a business organization.

I am not saying that is right, wrong, good, or bad. I am just saying that is the way it is, don't expect NCRS to be like your local Corvette club. Deal with the magazine delivery issues like you would with any other business, like Hot Rod, Car Craft, Motor Trend, etc.

Point to me any place in NCRS that calls itself a "club". It is an organization that has dues paying members. That is no different that AAA or a host of automobile associations that provide services to their "members" who pay dues to belong.

However, if you want to dispute that some people are to profiting from inside the NCRS organization, I put this to you.

Dues were $30 per year. According to a recent Driveline, there were 15,800 memberships. That is $474,000 per year income to NCRS, Inc. in Cincinnati, OH.

According to a statement for the US Post Office included in each issue, $16 of those dues are for a subscription to The Corvette Restorer. At this point, NCRS is a business selling a subscription to a magazine at the very least.

It also means that $16 x 15,800 = $252,800 for subscriptions. That leaves $221,200. What does that cover? Rent on a trailer to go to NCRS events?

Oh, I forgot to deduct the charity donation that some gripe about. It was $30,000 roughly in 2004, I can't seem to locate the amount for 2005 right now.

As Gary Chesnut and others have gone on in other posts, events are expensive. Yes, they are. However, they have to carry themselves, which is how Gary and others explain the registration fees and such. So that means the $221,200 is not being spent on regional events.

[Mark Milner]

You are confusing the local chapter $$ and

the national organization $$.

Those events with temporary fencing, swap meets, judging schools, judging fields, and the rest are covered under the event registration and judging fees by the LOCAL CHAPTER holding the event. There have been many who have stated this over and over.

This is not the national money being spent.

Years ago, I did work in events like you are describing, and it is a lot of work and a lot of money. My hat is of to those that do it. However, that has NOTHING to do with all the complaints these people are having with the national organization and the Driveline delivery.

[Gary C.]

Mark so why aren't you a NCRS member?

Uf you have all the answers? Or attend a Board of Director's meeting or run for a Regional Representative's position? Why, because you would have to make your real name known. It's much easier to stand back and cast stones than it is to get involved and do something productive! Gary....

[mike mccagh]

Re: Mark so why aren't you a NCRS member?

gary : i suspect "Todd" has resurfaced as "Mark" and i for one will henceforth ignore the troublemaker's posts.regards, mike

[Gary C.]

Ignore Mark's post as B.S. is a good idea

Yes, Todd is now Mark. Ironic pseudonym/alias for a NCRS member to use isn't it. Stand up and be recognized for what you are Mark, either someone who does have to cahones to sign his real name or a fraud. Gary....

[Grant M.]

Re:NCRS is a Business-AMEN Mike!

Bill, you're absolutely right. It should not surprise or concern any of us that it takes a few (three I think was the number quoted: membership, judging and editor) paid employees to deliver the services expected by a 15,000 member organization; charities (the larger ones) all have paid employees to run their operation ('business' if you want to call it that).

What I would join in taking issue with is the matter of charitable donations. I can't speak from a position of knowledge here, but is it clear that the Directors voted and approved such donations? Even if they did, is such activity within the stated goals of the organization?

From my perspective, if the NCRS (National) has excess funds to be dispersed, then I would prefer one of two courses of action to be followed: if excess funds are a recurring situation, then consider lowering dues; if they occur sporadically, then I think I'd rather we support the NCM (yeah, it's probably a 'business' too, but I would argue that at least it functions in the same vein as the NCRS: the preservation of Corvettes and the marque's history, etc).

My $.02 (Cdn)

grant

[Mark Milner]

Todd never contributed technically *NM*

[Mark Milner]

Let's clarify rather than insult

Gary, as a former SCCA driver, I would think YOU would relate.

NCRS Inc is to the NCRS Chapters as SCCA Denver is to the SCCA regions.

Most in NCRS do not understand that relationship.

NCRS Inc and SCCA Dever are similar to AAA and Standard Oil Motor Club. They are all "Clubs" in that they are an organization designed to have "members" who pay dues to receive some services.

Unfortunately, many NCRS members think of NCRS Inc as a club like their local Corvette club, be it Boone Trail Corvette Club; Cowtown Vettes, Inc.; Frederick County Corvette Club; Fox Valley Corvette Club; Central Illinois Corvettes; or a host of other local Corvette clubs.

This is why they are so dissatisfied with the charity contributions and the random Driveline delivery.

If this was AAA or Standard Oil Motor Club, they would accept that is how the business runs and let it go.

As to my name, I wish you'd lay off. If I had not met and seen you, I'd say yors was made up.