GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

[Tom R.]

I'm curious if among the GM plants announced for closing...does this include the GM engine assembly plant we visited during the road tour to Windsor?

[Gary Bishop]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

From the local news..... NO. It will be a smaller Plant a couple of miles away. Part of a Plant that assembles parts.

[mike cobine]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

Here is a statement that says a mouthful.

"They have to figure out a way to sell cars. To be successful they have to have a product that sells without incentives," said Andrew Harding, chief investment officer at Allegiant Asset Management,

Other than Corvette, there aren't any GM cars that make me want to buy. I miss the days of the full-sized Impalas and even mid-sized Chevelles. Both could be in a sporty fashion to have a nice car that would also haul your racer or show car where you needed to go.

Today, you have to buy the big SUV or pickup.




GM Job Cuts

[BILLY OLSON]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

This is just my own humble opinion, but......

They could start by styling their cars a little better. All of the newer model wierd geometric angles and discontinuous lines are horrible (a couple of which are also on the new C6). It seems to be a styling theme throughout GM.

These games they play with their MSRPs and actual prices are ridiculus and misleading. In a way they are decieveing the consumer by making them think there are getting a car of a particular worth/value at a great price, when in actuality they are only getting market value for that car. That is why American vehicles have such horrible re-sale value They were never worth their sticker price in the first place.

Out of 15 or so cars I have bought only 3 were not GM. I am a true Corvette and GM (and American vehicle) enthuiast, that is why it pains me to see this decline.

Billy

[Henry J.]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

If GM offered a retro clone of a 67 Camaro, done up as nicely as the new Mustang, I doubt that I could resist. At the moment though, there isn't a GM car...other than the Corvette...that arouses me in any way.

[mike cobine]

Don't you really mean they are just ugly?

I remember when people used to talk about a '59 Chevy would scare the dog. Well, most of what they build today makes that '59 a work of art.

[mike cobine]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

In 1969, that Camaro ran the cheapest from $2621 (almost half of a Corvette) to $2940 for the highest, before you began tossing on options. You could option it from a economic 6 to a neck snapping big block, something your mother could drive to something that lit your fire.

Today, you would pay $40,000 and only be able to add options.

In '69, you could buy it and drive it for 30 years, easily maintaining it yourself.

In 2002, not even the engineers that designed it could fix it if it broke on the side of the road. Maintaining past waranty was something you wanted to avoid.

Odds are their 2006 repro-'67 would be as complicated or more.

[BILLY OLSON]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

Henry is absolutley correct. Ford did an outstanding job with the new Mustang. Americans love classic cars and there really is a market for the new "retro" styling when done correctly like the Mustang.

Also, my first response and comments were more emotionally motivated having seen all of the GM news today and then the post here. I realize that the problems are significantly more complex than just poor styling and poor marketing. GM labor, pension and benefits, U.S. economy, world ecomomy, Chinese insustrial explosion...

Billy

[BILLY OLSON]

Re: Don't you really mean they are just ugly?

I was trying to be considerate for those on here who might be owners of later model GM vehicles, but yes, they are just ugly. I remember going to a Pontiac dealer just before they discontinued the Firebirds contemplating buying one. I was in the Pontiac showroom and I just could not believe/comprehend/understand the horrible looks of the Aztek. Then the Chevy Avalanche came out and my dismay only grew.

I will have to say at around that time Oldsmoblie was producing the Alero and it was really a clean looking car with nice styling. It even seemed that you saw a good number of them on the road. I guess that was why GM decided to discontinue Oldsmoble.

Billy

[Rick S.]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

GM dropped the ball on the new GTO, being in too big of hurry to get it to market. They had a pretty good looking prototype GTO about 1999-2000 that I saw at a Michigan GTO show but they dropped that retro look.

[Joe L.]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

Gary-----

Yes, it's my understanding that the plant in Ontario to be closed is the St. Catherines powertrain COMPONENTS plant, NOT the engine assembly plant. Actually, I was unaware of this facility. Is it the last surviving element of the St Catherines foundry operation, mostly shut down quite a few years ago? Do you know what specific sort of powertrain components that this plant currently manufactures?

The big shocker in the announcement was Oshawa Vehicle Assembly #2. I figured that would be among the last to go.

The Flint V-6 engine was VERY expected. In fact, it surprises me that it's going to be around until 2008 under the current shut-down plan.

The Lansing Craft Centre was no surprise, either. However, it's a disappointment inasmuch as its closure pretty much forecloses the possibility of any future low volume, "niche" vehicles (such being the kind that folks like those who inhabit this board might like).

[Clem Z.]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

i still think that the reason the C and FB were dropped was because of CAFE. GM wanted to sell the big high profit SUVs which also hurts their CAFE so the C and FB went. ford sells a lot of V-6 mustangs which does not hurt their CAFE as much. most C and FB sales were the big HP models because most buyers look at them as the poor mans corvette. JMHO

[Gary #41345]

Re: GM Plant Closings...St Catherine?

For years now I have wondered why the Chinese,Japanese could take apart an American product... copy it...make it a little better...and take over the market selling it? While we find it so hard to take apart their products....copy it...make it a little better...and take over the market with it..... Sounds like American big businesses are going down and will eventually be taken over and put out of business by the guys making products in their own basements and over seas sweat shops. You have to ask yourself,,,,,IS BIGGER BETTER? Look at Apple Computer which got so big the owner couldn't run it anymore and had to step down and take a smaller role in the company. Can big American businesses get so big with their "If we can't beat em we'll buy em" attitudes that even high priced CEO's can't maintain what they run?

[Chris H.]

Re: GM Plant Closings...Oshawa?

I spent two years working the Oshawas 1 and 2 plants. Best plants in North America for quality and efficiency. I still cannot see them closing either. They share the paint facility. They run under the same roofs and the lines intertwine. There are Impalas running right next to LaCrosse's. The workers can talk to each other. Oshawa II's efficiency will drop since they have to support the entire complex on their own. No, something must be up. Where will the LaCrosse and Grand Prix be built?

Most likely the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix will be built somewhere else as RWD starting in '08. The LaCrosse will move into Oshawa I (and hopefully Oshawa I will go back to 3 shifts) until it goes on the Epsilon Platform . The Impala will have to go to a new architecture soon after that. I believe the Oshawa II plant will close temporarily until a new architecture moves in sometime after 2010.

Problem is GM will change their mind on what really happens with what happens with a number of factors including future sales, hourly concessions, etc.
Major problem with GM is sticking to a plan. So many people with their hands in the pie and the industry is so competitive and always changing fast.

[G B.]

The core problem

American executives and hourly workers are a big handicap in the modern business world. Most have a sense of entitlement to a pay rate that supports a good lifestyle, regardless of the success of their business.

When an old company in this country is saddled with a workforce that doesn't accept the basic concepts of capitalism, that company will die. The workers simply won't allow the company to change if it involves self-sacrifice. My guess is that the average GM employee would rather see the company fail than voluntarily accept lower pay and benefits.

It really pisses me off these days to read about high pay for executives at a company in a tailspin. I also get steamed when I read about union extortion attempts. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to "entitlement" now. The recent hurricanes ruined the Mississippi coast. Many residents there are having to start their material lives over. I do not see them bitching, whining, and demanding government help like the New Orleanians on TV. Most people in southern Mississippi have just accepted that if they don't get back to work and rebuild their lives, then they will have nothing. They don't feel "entitled" to a high paying job or a good lifestyle. They plan to earn it. I wish the GM employees had this attitude.