GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

[Mike M.]

Mail Fraud

Paul, I beleive if you sent you check through the mail he is commiting a federal
crime not local or state. Mail fraud is a serious offence. I was told a long time ago to use the post office for sending payments, that way know matter where they are the law can get them. Mike

[mike cobine]

The Difference is Repeated Problem, not First Time

There is no way NCRS can screen for potential abuse of its members, not without raising our dues to several hundred dollars a year to pay for screeners.

As such, ads both commercial and personal have to be viewed as it is your own responsibility to check them out.

However, once NCRS is aware that there are problems with an advertiser, personal or commercial, AND THEY CONTINUE TO ADVERTISE FOR THEM, then one can assume that NCRS is endorsing them.

If you have a pit bull who is wonderful with your kids, and it suddenly bites a neighbor's kid, that is terrible and you feel terrible and everyone feels terrible, but it isn't against the law.

But if you keep a pit bull that has been biting everyone and you continue to invite neighbors' kids in, then you are wrong. You have endangered them and were fully aware. That is against the law.

Awareness is the key. Once aware, NCRS is wrong to continue advertising for a known bad vendor.

[Gary #41345]

Re: The Difference is Repeated Problem, not First

I for one will donate $$$ to take out an ad on the same page as Goat Hill with some actual comments of unethical practices by those who have been or are being ripped off. Start the ad off with a big "BEWARE" and go from there....this is an ongoing issue and to sit back while others get ripped off and do nothing is as bad as Goat Hill as far as I'm concerned. Maybe this ad will drive them to cancel their Driveline Ad.....

[Gary #41345]

Re: GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

I for one will donate $$$ to take out an ad on the same page as Goat Hill with some actual comments of unethical practices by those who have been or are being ripped off. Start the ad off with a big "BEWARE" and go from there....this is an ongoing issue and to sit back while others get ripped off and do nothing is as bad as Goat Hill as far as I'm concerned. Maybe this ad will drive them to cancel their Driveline Ad.....

[Wayne K.]

Oh oh, I hope Mrs. Clem doesn't read this. *NM*

[Joe L.]

Re: GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

Paul-----

Paul Baker is a very talented and experienced guy and, in that sense, is an asset to the Corvette restoration hobby and industry. I don't know why he pulls these sort of deals, but I've heard of it more than once. I have purchased a few things from him over the years but I only do so on a "cash-and-carry" basis. No other way.

If one wants to purchase his products, I generally suggest doing business with a more reliable Corvette vendor that carries and STOCKS his items. They are in a better position to deal with Paul and his "foibles".

[Loren L.]

Re: GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

And your method for detecting bad ads IN ADVANCE, would be akin to predicting where the next pimple will show itself..........or?????

[Norris W.]

Re: GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

If you actually READ what I posted above, I said "unresolved complaints". I didn't say or imply anything about "in advance" or "detecting". It's a simple thing........... if somebody continues to screw the members and there are complaints, then their ads aren't accepted until the complaints are cleared or deemed unreasonable.

[Mark #28455]

Let me get this straight....

We - The NCRS - are a club. It's our newsletter - ie: it belongs to the dues paying members of the club. Members of our club are getting the shaft. And the leadership of the club prefers to side with the "shafter" rather than the "shaftee" (who happens to be the dues paying one who pays for the club)?

Huh?

[Norris W.]

Re: Mail Fraud

I'm beginning to think mail fraud prosecution is an old wive's tale. It's been 7 or 8 months since I sent a Postal Money order Registered Mail to a dirtball in Toledo Ohio named Thacker for a 69 front valance panel. He (his mother actually) had 50+ positive feedbacks. The M.O. was made out to her. She CLAIMED that her son had gotten into her E Bay account and used it without her knowledge and had stiffed about a half dozen people. Even so, she cashed the M.O. and gave him the money, or either he forged her name. I filed complaints with the postal inspector and the FBI interstate/internet fraud unit, and as of now have not heard a single word back. I got an acknoledgement from them within a day that they'd rec'd the complaint, but since then......... nothing. Several of the other screwee's of this particular crook did the same, and last I heard they'd gotten no response either.

[Gary #41345]

Re: GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

In our collecting hobby talented and experienced guys are plentiful and well thought of for the help they give others in their quest to add to and better the Corvette restorers of the world. There is no room for characters like this in our Driveline pretending to be reputable vendors when and after they have caused much concern to our members. The forum should not be a place where we try and warn members not to buy from this outfit because you know it's a matter of time until a new member and not yet a advid forum writer decides to buy from this guy based on his ad in the Driveline. We should not police the Driveline, but when so many members have issues with a particular vendor and constant advertizer in our magazine there should be a follow up....advertizing/ers in any magazine must and should follow ethical business practices.

[Mike G.]

Re: GoatHill Classics/Paul Baker

Mike: first let me say that you are one of my favorite contributors to this board, for many reasons.

But, let's ask ourselves THIS question: If our "club" were putting on an annual car show & swap meet, and a particular vendor repeatedly took cash deposits and took forever to deliver the goods, triggering a rash of complaints --- would we still allow him to buy a swap space year after year??

Not at my swap meet we wouldn't!

Now, how is this fundamentally different from what we have here with GHC?

[G B.]

A simple policy will do

The NCRS Board could confirm that the Driveline editor has the sole authority (and responsibility) to refuse ads from anyone with an unresolved, reasonable complaint about "no delivery".

This policy would not consider complaints about cosmetic appearance, mechanical function, and part authenticity. It would just come down to this: has the part been paid for, and has it been delivered or a refund given? It wouldn't take much time to investigate these complaints, but it would take some Board initiative to push enforcement. Frankly, I believe the editor already has the authority.

[Harmon C.]

Re: A simple policy will do

All we can do on this board is read and use caution with what has been said. I think the people who lost money or have delivery problems need to put it in writing and send it to the Vendor,Driveline editor, and your regional director and anyone else you think needs to know. Keep on top of it and see if you get results. Lyle

[G B.]

Uh... I meant NCRS Board of Regional Directors

...not Discussion Board participants.